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I understood gender discrimination once I added “Mr.” to my resume

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Re: I understood gender discrimination once I added “Mr.” to my resume

#111

Post by larrys »

alanctgardner2 wrote: post #67
larrys wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Although, I think that if I took some fancy photos of myself and primped myself up, I don't think it would do me any favors and I'd get some unwanted attention!" My brain lit up on that sentence and I clicked on your profile to see what you looked like. (Happily married and all of that but men are visual)

> Happily married and all of that but men are visual What does that even mean?

It's like saying "I just bought a car and I"m happy with it but I still like to look at other cars at the car show or in the showroom because it makes me feel good".

Re: I understood gender discrimination once I added “Mr.” to my resume

#112

Post by yaddayadda »

noloqy wrote: post #29
cliveowen wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a simple way to fix it. Namely providing a means to submit your resume that anonymizes name, gender, age and anything that could bias the reviewer's assessment. The best HR departments already do that, at least that's the hope.

What's next? All the interviews have to take place in a dark room so that the interviewer can't see the color of the interviewee's skin?

A telephone interview will accomplish the same thing, and reduces travel expenses to boot.

In fact telephone, or skype, interviews for the first round is actually becoming standard in many fields.

Re: I understood gender discrimination once I added “Mr.” to my resume

#113

Post by ahoy »

crazysaem wrote: post #101

I am graduating in a few month and also applied for some jobs in the USA (I'm from germany). I found it somewhat intresting that every employer I sent my resume to was asking what gender and race(!) I was before I could submit. You could also choose the option not to give an answer, but I have never seen that in germany. On the other hand some people on HN find it odd to have a picture of you on your CV - which is th…

Every american employer asks for that, it's a legal thing I believe, and (supposedly) not related to hiring.

Re: I understood gender discrimination once I added “Mr.” to my resume

#114

Post by mynewwork »

crazysaem wrote: post #101

I am graduating in a few month and also applied for some jobs in the USA (I'm from germany). I found it somewhat intresting that every employer I sent my resume to was asking what gender and race(!) I was before I could submit. You could also choose the option not to give an answer, but I have never seen that in germany. On the other hand some people on HN find it odd to have a picture of you on your CV - which is th…

They don't use that information for interviewing/hiring decisions. If they have any contracts with the federal government, they are legally required to collect that information about applicants specifically for compliance with equal opportunity employment.

In other words, no one was looking at that information when looking at your resume. Someone in HR was looking at aggregate data at the end of the year to say "Hey, we're hiring group X at above/below average" or in the event of a lawsuit to prove they don't discriminate.

Re: I understood gender discrimination once I added “Mr.” to my resume

#115

Post by larrys »

bitops wrote: post #60
larrys wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The way to do it? Work to change men's attitudes and biases towards women. It can definitely be done" Are you suggesting that as a hobby, a career, or? Who has the time or inclination to do that? "It can definitely be done" As a practical matter I would personally worry more about other things than spending time reversing established thought process and bias. Now of course if someone wants to start a movement or a n…

I'm suggesting that it be a focus in life - if it's one of your core values and you care about it, you'll naturally take the time and energy to work against it. For example, many people on HN care about privacy and government intrusion. They don't need to be convinced as to why it's important to speak up about the NSA and the US treatment of Edward Snowden. People who care feel it's a personal imperative, so they do…

"It's absolutely fine not to care about every social cause out there."

I'm impressed with your reply and the way it is phrased. Not typical for HN (and other places) where you can and do get jumped on because people feel differently or feel you have to care about what they care about or what a crowd thinks is important. Very well put.

"But I'm sure that there are other things in your life"

This really is one of my core problems with people judging. They don't know the complete picture and focus on one vary small thing and make their judgement from that.

For example maybe someone doesn't like recyling (and never recycles) but is free with their time and help in another area that has much greater personal and societal benefits.

Re: I understood gender discrimination once I added “Mr.” to my resume

#116

Post by drcube »

douglasisshiny wrote: post #97
danilocampos wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

woosh

I'm going to leave this here: http://www.bls.gov/cps/cpsaat11.pdf

Human Resources Managers 72.7% women

Human Resources Workers 71.8% women

Human Resources Assistants 82.7% women

Re: I understood gender discrimination once I added “Mr.” to my resume

#117

Post by saraid216 »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #50
cliveowen wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a simple way to fix it. Namely providing a means to submit your resume that anonymizes name, gender, age and anything that could bias the reviewer's assessment. The best HR departments already do that, at least that's the hope.

> anything that could bias the reviewer's assessment Well, you could argue that list of skills, education and work experience could bias the assessment as well. There's no clear-cut line here that separates relevant from irrelevant. Sometimes even gender is relevant. For example clerks in grocery stores are mostly women and there are bunch of good business reasons for that (even if they are based on stupid social bia…

This is one of the two-way street issues. There is real business value to be extracted from exploiting the existing sexism in society, agreed, but in doing so, it also reinforces that existing sexism. It's a vicious cycle of mutually supporting behavior.

That is a problem. Denying said value is not necessarily the best solution, but some solution is necessary.

Re: I understood gender discrimination once I added “Mr.” to my resume

#118

Post by clarkmoody »

douglasisshiny wrote: post #97
danilocampos wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

woosh

I'm going to leave this here: http://www.bls.gov/cps/cpsaat11.pdf

Relevant data, for those not reading, though I suggest it.

  Role                              % Women
  ================================  =======
  Human Resource Managers           72.7
  Human Resource Workers            71.8
  Human resources assistants [...]  82.7

Re: I understood gender discrimination once I added “Mr.” to my resume

#119

Post by lsiebert »

If your company is discriminating, it's not getting the best applicant for the job, it's getting the best young male for the job. That is missing out on at least 60% of applicants. That should be all the reason any intelligent person needs to be concerned about these factors. It is hard to hire good people. Also the pool of individuals discriminated against by other employers is perhaps more likely to contain qualified people who have not been hired.

Re: I understood gender discrimination once I added “Mr.” to my resume

#120

Post by lsiebert »

If your company is discriminating, it's not getting the best applicant for the job, it's getting the best young male for the job. That is missing out on at least 60% of applicants. That should be all the reason any intelligent person needs to be concerned about these factors. It is hard to hire good people. Also the pool of individuals discriminated against by other employers is perhaps more likely to contain qualified people who have not been hired.
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