Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Feds, We Need Some Time Apart

defcon.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

241–250 of 260 posts

Re: Feds, We Need Some Time Apart

#241

Post by foobarbazqux »

flyinRyan wrote: post #231
foobarbazqux wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If employees choose their employers freely, what are interviews for?

There is truth to the fact that we can't completely choose who we work for. But none the less, you are responsible for the choices you make. If a man is repeatedly raped and abused as a child we still hold him accountable as a man who rapes someone.

I basically am against discrimination on the basis of one's employer for the same principles behind any individual freedom. I might not like your work, but I respect that you are a taxpayer in the same state as me and as such contribute to our ability to meet in relative peace in the first place, and I won't condone organized discrimination against you on the basis of your legal work. If anything, I will petition the state to make your work illegal.

Re: Feds, We Need Some Time Apart

#242

Post by etherael »

flyinRyan wrote: post #233
etherael wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>You can either give up by selling all your belongings and begin to live on the street as a non-tax paying citizen, or you can do something to stop the things that are taking away your freedoms and liberties, or at the very least, do something to make it harder for those that want to take away your freedoms to do so. False dichotomy, there are other options that both don't lend any legitimacy to the state and allow y…

Unless that particular farm is the US or North Korea. Both of which expect you to keep filing taxes on money you earn no matter where you earn it [1]. [1] Obviously there are exemptions for foreign earned income, but if you're in country with lower tax than the US (of which there are a fair amount) you could end up paying the US taxes on money that has literally nothing to do with them. Worse, if you're married to a…

Yeah if I was from the US I would have to renounce my citizenship, but there's no doubt in my mind I would have done so if necessary. Also it's the US and some African tinpot dictatorship if memory serves.

Re: Feds, We Need Some Time Apart

#243

Post by flyinRyan »

foobarbazqux wrote: post #241
flyinRyan wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is truth to the fact that we can't completely choose who we work for. But none the less, you are responsible for the choices you make. If a man is repeatedly raped and abused as a child we still hold him accountable as a man who rapes someone.

I basically am against discrimination on the basis of one's employer for the same principles behind any individual freedom. I might not like your work, but I respect that you are a taxpayer in the same state as me and as such contribute to our ability to meet in relative peace in the first place, and I won't condone organized discrimination against you on the basis of your legal work. If anything, I will petition the…

I disagree. It's dangerous to let people slide because "they're just doing their job". People "just doing their job" are the enablers. Without them, none of the really serious man-made tragedies of history would have been possible.

Re: Feds, We Need Some Time Apart

#244

Post by flyinRyan »

foobarbazqux wrote: post #239
flyinRyan wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots of reasons. If someone were employed by, say, the Gestapo then it's pretty clear you would want to discriminate against them.

You're the 3rd person to try and Godwin the thread. Can we stick to discrimination against the employees of legal employers in one's own state that one recognizes as legitimate and one is not in active rebellion against?

Can we stfu about Godwin? Do you even know what it means? It's from the time of usenet and all it was was an observation that when the Nazi's come up the discussion is usually over.

It's certainly not a good excuse to go ignoring important lessons in history. Nazi Germany is one of the better examples of why "just doing my job" is not a valid excuse for anything.

Re: Feds, We Need Some Time Apart

#245

Post by foobarbazqux »

flyinRyan wrote: post #243
foobarbazqux wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I basically am against discrimination on the basis of one's employer for the same principles behind any individual freedom. I might not like your work, but I respect that you are a taxpayer in the same state as me and as such contribute to our ability to meet in relative peace in the first place, and I won't condone organized discrimination against you on the basis of your legal work. If anything, I will petition the…

I disagree. It's dangerous to let people slide because "they're just doing their job". People "just doing their job" are the enablers. Without them, none of the really serious man-made tragedies of history would have been possible.

I have no problem with protesting the work people do. I just have a problem with locking them out of the protest.

Re: Feds, We Need Some Time Apart

#246

Post by mpyne »

etherael wrote: post #218
mpyne wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no confusion between the two concepts. Common sense always applies for starters ("Wow, a 99¢ hamburger! Obviously those cattle were treated humanely!"). Likewise blissful ignorance is no excuse (in an indirect world) for being unaware of the reasonable impact or influence of your allocation of capital. Otherwise there's no reason to complain of indirectly helping the government by paying taxes, for all I know…

> for all I know every single penny of my tax money could have gone to provide food for the needy and beds for the homeless and it's just your taxes that are going toward funding guns and NSA. It's a collective pool to which you contribute which is used for both purposes, you bear some responsibility for both actions by extension. > since one could willingly contribute to only those aspects of government which are co…

> No matter how many times the state violates that trust, you do not acquire that option, your option is the same as it was to begin with, serve or die.

You do have options though. Go somewhere that has no state, convince the people to disestablish the state (oh, and somehow prevent them from re-establishing one), or go somewhere that has a state that you would be willing to serve.

Re: Feds, We Need Some Time Apart

#247

Post by foobarbazqux »

flyinRyan wrote: post #244
foobarbazqux wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're the 3rd person to try and Godwin the thread. Can we stick to discrimination against the employees of legal employers in one's own state that one recognizes as legitimate and one is not in active rebellion against?

Can we stfu about Godwin? Do you even know what it means? It's from the time of usenet and all it was was an observation that when the Nazi's come up the discussion is usually over. It's certainly not a good excuse to go ignoring important lessons in history. Nazi Germany is one of the better examples of why "just doing my job" is not a valid excuse for anything.

Actually Godwin only said that the longer discussions on the internet get, the greater the chance of someone making a comparison to the Nazis. Various groups decided that if this event occurred it was an indicator that the person who made the comparison had lost the debate and that the discussion was over.

Re: Feds, We Need Some Time Apart

#248

Post by flyinRyan »

foobarbazqux wrote: post #245
flyinRyan wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. It's dangerous to let people slide because "they're just doing their job". People "just doing their job" are the enablers. Without them, none of the really serious man-made tragedies of history would have been possible.

I have no problem with protesting the work people do. I just have a problem with locking them out of the protest.

No one is locking them out of protesting in general. Just our protest.

Re: Feds, We Need Some Time Apart

#249

Post by flyinRyan »

foobarbazqux wrote: post #247
flyinRyan wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can we stfu about Godwin? Do you even know what it means? It's from the time of usenet and all it was was an observation that when the Nazi's come up the discussion is usually over. It's certainly not a good excuse to go ignoring important lessons in history. Nazi Germany is one of the better examples of why "just doing my job" is not a valid excuse for anything.

Actually Godwin only said that the longer discussions on the internet get, the greater the chance of someone making a comparison to the Nazis. Various groups decided that if this event occurred it was an indicator that the person who made the comparison had lost the debate and that the discussion was over.

Various groups may have decided that, and may even be right in some cases but there are plenty of valid reasons to bring up the Nazis for base line comparisons.

Re: Feds, We Need Some Time Apart

#250

Post by [deleted] »

foobarbazqux wrote: post #234
RyanZAG wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, if you put the word 'legal' there, then there is no discussion and nothing to talk about: legal is whatever it says in the law of your country. I'm not in USA, so I have no idea what is or isn't legal, and don't actually care. Legal has nothing to do with ethics and whether something is right or wrong, and doing something that is ethical but illegal is always preferred over something that is legal but unethical.…

I am surprised to hear that laws and ethics have nothing to do with each other. Is it a random chance that murder is illegal and unethical just about everywhere? Really I was just wondering if you have any examples of legal but unethical employers that you believe it's okay for a university to cite to discriminate against an applicant, in your home country. Perhaps the military?

[deleted]
Post reply on HN