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I understood gender discrimination once I added “Mr.” to my resume

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Re: I understood gender discrimination once I added “Mr.” to my resume

#91

Post by sliverstorm »

dominotw wrote: post #87
sliverstorm wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe it isn't a problem that needs fixing? Maybe making work another place of constant judgement and time under the PC microscope would not be a net positive? Remember there's a difference between bare-faced misogyny and garden variety politically incorrectness.

Nice observation. One of my colleague got a stern warning for using the word dick ( 'dont be a dick' kind of way) around female colleagues, because two women sitting behind him complained to management about it. I am sure he is not discriminatory, biased or misogynistic. I guess it wise to think about what you are saying and not say stuff like 'fuck off', 'stop bitching' which may be construed as inappropriate.

I can't claim it is my own observation. I got it from a feminist talking about how maybe the reason men are resisting women's ingress into male-dominated professions is because when women find the traditionally male workplace environment unsatisfactory, they expect the environment to change to suit them.

Re: I understood gender discrimination once I added “Mr.” to my resume

#92

Post by alan_cx »

zmj wrote: post #61
larrys wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Although, I think that if I took some fancy photos of myself and primped myself up, I don't think it would do me any favors and I'd get some unwanted attention!" My brain lit up on that sentence and I clicked on your profile to see what you looked like. (Happily married and all of that but men are visual)

Why did you post this?

Seriously, have a think about it. That comment might be smarter than it first appears.

Re: I understood gender discrimination once I added “Mr.” to my resume

#93

Post by WalterSear »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #43
tehwalrus wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was a proposal going around the Lib Dems in the UK at one point[1] to make it illegal to have names on CVs; because they describe gender, and sometimes race, too. The proposal went on to say that that people should apply for jobs using their National Insurance number (like a social security number, but basically just used as a UID with the tax office - I don't know what else a SSN does, but it seems to be more…

It won't work everywhere; e.g. SSN equivalent in Poland has sex encoded as one of the digits (determined by whether it's even or odd).

If the bias is subconcious, moving to this would still have an effect.

Re: I understood gender discrimination once I added “Mr.” to my resume

#94

Post by simonbarker87 »

petitbeurre wrote: post #89
simonbarker87 wrote: post #64

We've been interviewing for our first 2 roles recently and I have to say that male or female doesn't bother me either way - we've interviewed in equal quantities and, while we're yet to fill the positions, I genuinely am not bothered if the successful person is male or female. Reasons for this could be: 1. I'm 25 so I wonder if I haven't experienced enough to bias me one way or another (what that experience would be…

> My fiancé is an excellent engineer so I might have had the male dominated field bias squashed by that. I don't understand. Are you a gay male? How does that change your perception of the male dominated field bias?

Sorry, poorly phrased sentence. What I meant was, where some of my friends see engineering as a male only field (ie. women can't do the job type opinion) I don't, this could be in part because my female fiancé is an excellent engineer who is head and shoulder above some of her male and female counter parts in knowledge and skills.

Re: I understood gender discrimination once I added “Mr.” to my resume

#95

Post by lotharbot »

petitbeurre wrote: post #89
simonbarker87 wrote: post #64

We've been interviewing for our first 2 roles recently and I have to say that male or female doesn't bother me either way - we've interviewed in equal quantities and, while we're yet to fill the positions, I genuinely am not bothered if the successful person is male or female. Reasons for this could be: 1. I'm 25 so I wonder if I haven't experienced enough to bias me one way or another (what that experience would be…

> My fiancé is an excellent engineer so I might have had the male dominated field bias squashed by that. I don't understand. Are you a gay male? How does that change your perception of the male dominated field bias?

I suspect the OP misspelled fiancée.

Re: I understood gender discrimination once I added “Mr.” to my resume

#96

Post by swengw »

speeder wrote: post #21
bitops wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What's even sadder is that there's no obvious or easy way to fix it. There is no easy way to fix it, but there is a way to fix it. I won't go so far as to say that it's obvious to many people. The way to do it? Work to change men's attitudes and biases towards women. It can definitely be done, but it takes hard work and cultural change. I would recommend the book "The Macho Paradox" by Jackson Katz for anyone inter…

Why you need to change MEN attitudes? Most HR departments are staffed by women for example, they would be the ones that saw a "Mr." in the resume.

It doesn't address the real gender discrimination issues, but having gender-balanced HR departments could have helped Kim O'Grady. Currently, if you include your photo in your resume, being a beautiful (rather than average-looking) woman seems to lower your chance of getting an interview [1].

[1] http://www.economist.com/node/21551535

Re: I understood gender discrimination once I added “Mr.” to my resume

#97

Post by douglasisshiny »

danilocampos wrote: post #86
Peroni wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's stating fact. The HR industry is absolutely dominated by females. That's not a matter of opinion.

woosh

I'm going to leave this here: http://www.bls.gov/cps/cpsaat11.pdf

Re: I understood gender discrimination once I added “Mr.” to my resume

#98

Post by anotherbadlogin »

pessimizer wrote: post #63
crazygringo wrote: post #3

That's really, really sad. And the worst part is, it's surely conscious on nobody's part. There have even been studies showing this effect. What's even sadder is that there's no obvious or easy way to fix it.

It's conscious on a lot of people's parts. I've also heard "no women, no sexual harassment suits" enough from people in tech to assume that there are a lot of bigots not dumb enough to admit it out loud. I could be going too far, though. Maybe the kind of dumb lockerroom overshare bluster amongst the employees and managers of sexually harassing companies and departments lends itself to admitting incriminating things…

The perceived lower value of women in the workplace comes from the fact that they can suddenly announce that they're pregnant; they're allowed, by law, to take a leave of absence to have a kid and put the company in a lurch. This is especially harmful to small businesses. We all know this, so why dance around the subject?

What we have here is hypocrisy. Society tells women that they're equals, but then tells them that they're cows to be extended special dispensation to churn out offspring. We have plenty of people on the planet, and we don't need more. Having children is a choice, and we shouldn't all be expected to pander to those who make it.

What's the solution here?

Re: I understood gender discrimination once I added “Mr.” to my resume

#99

Post by Amadou »

dominotw wrote: post #87
sliverstorm wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe it isn't a problem that needs fixing? Maybe making work another place of constant judgement and time under the PC microscope would not be a net positive? Remember there's a difference between bare-faced misogyny and garden variety politically incorrectness.

Nice observation. One of my colleague got a stern warning for using the word dick ( 'dont be a dick' kind of way) around female colleagues, because two women sitting behind him complained to management about it. I am sure he is not discriminatory, biased or misogynistic. I guess it wise to think about what you are saying and not say stuff like 'fuck off', 'stop bitching' which may be construed as inappropriate.

If anything "don't be a dick" is misandrist.

Re: I understood gender discrimination once I added “Mr.” to my resume

#100

Post by reinhardt »

hack_edu wrote: post #22
crazygringo wrote: post #3

That's really, really sad. And the worst part is, it's surely conscious on nobody's part. There have even been studies showing this effect. What's even sadder is that there's no obvious or easy way to fix it.

Want to see this in action? Create near-identical profiles on any job site frequented by recruiters, one profile male and another female. Your male account, fictional or not, will get a measurable amount more attention and see more outreach.

I somehow suspect that the opposite would be true for, say, preschool teachers or nurses.
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