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ADHD Drugs Don't Boost Kids' Grades, Studies Find

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Re: ADHD Drugs Don't Boost Kids' Grades, Studies Find

#101

Post by MarcParadise »

reneherse wrote: post #50
linohh wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What many people don't understand is the stress people with ADD are exposed to. Especially when they're smart. Imagine having a porsche in your driveway, but for reasons you can only use the first gear. No matter how hard you push the pedal to the metal, you won't be as fast as you want the car to go. Plus if you keep going full throttle in the first gear eventually you'll break something. Sounds depressing, doesn't…

Wow, this sounds exactly like what I've been experiencing for the last four to five years. Even the misdiagnosis, which have mostly turned me off from seeking any kind of mental health treatment. Can you recommend how to screen for a competent psychiatrist specializing in adult ADD?

Start with a neurologist, and not a psychiatrist.

While a psychiatrist can make the diagnosis, IME they're more likely to go after the secondary long-term effects as described above.

Re: ADHD Drugs Don't Boost Kids' Grades, Studies Find

#103

Post by benjamincburns »

mikevm wrote: post #100
benjamincburns wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if ADHD clinics are a bit like a hammer in search of a nail. Unsolicited suggestion: go to a neurologist. Failing that, go to a psychiatrist. When I took Concerta I had similar problems. The irritability was awful. My nerves just felt raw . Methylphenidate (aka Ritalin) anecdotally amongst the people I know who've taken it seems to be the most likely to cause heart problems - with one friend having been hosp…

Many neurologists don't have a deep understanding of ADHD, so if I were to go to one, I'd need to find one that specializes in this field. My ADHD doctor was a psychiatrist, by the way. I agree with you about the Concerta. I have a short fuse, but Concerta made it much worse. Unfortunately, I don't live in the US, and the only gov't subsidized ADHD medication is 'Ritalin'. That's right 'Ritalin'. Not even the active…

This is a total tangent, but some of us in the USA look to countries with socialized/subsidized medicine programs as ideal. What country are you from?

Re: ADHD Drugs Don't Boost Kids' Grades, Studies Find

#104

Post by jt2190 »

barry-cotter wrote: post #76
jt2190 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as telling someone to stop their prescribed medication, then yes, the prescribing physician is the only one to listen to. But perhaps you are expert enough and have enough knowledge about his medical history that he should listen to you instead?

I have 0.01 as much of a problem with this proposition as with your previous one. That is an excellent heuristic for most people to use.

You created a "previous proposition" where there wasn't one, by not reading my words in context as a reply the parent post (that described a specific scenario wherein the writer's friends were telling him to stop taking the Adderall that was successfully treating his ADHD symptoms) and instead inventing a completely different context for my words.

In the U.S. at least, Adderall is best prescribed by a psychiatrist, and while there are many general practitioners who will write you a script for Adderall without referring you to a psychiatrist, they're not following what's considered to be best practice. The same doctor would be considered remiss if they didn't refer their patient with heart disease symptoms to a cardiologist. Adderall is a stimulant that can be addictive if used incorrectly, and ADHD is not understood well enough to know that it is best treated by Adderall alone.

While neuroscientists, pharmacists, etc. may be able to tell you details about ADHD or Adderall, they aren't generally licensed to write prescriptions for Adderall in the U.S., and shouldn't be telling you start, stop, or change your Adderall dosage without consulting with your prescribing doctor first.

Re: ADHD Drugs Don't Boost Kids' Grades, Studies Find

#105

Post by mikevm »

benjamincburns wrote: post #103
mikevm wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many neurologists don't have a deep understanding of ADHD, so if I were to go to one, I'd need to find one that specializes in this field. My ADHD doctor was a psychiatrist, by the way. I agree with you about the Concerta. I have a short fuse, but Concerta made it much worse. Unfortunately, I don't live in the US, and the only gov't subsidized ADHD medication is 'Ritalin'. That's right 'Ritalin'. Not even the active…

This is a total tangent, but some of us in the USA look to countries with socialized/subsidized medicine programs as ideal. What country are you from?

I'm from Israel.

Re: ADHD Drugs Don't Boost Kids' Grades, Studies Find

#106

Post by dschiptsov »

devb wrote: post #95
dschiptsov wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does this imply that one should read/use code only of licensed/certified programmers?))

If it was code that significantly impacted your ability ti live your life, absolutely.

The point is that lots of people buying their licences/certificates because they have severe difficulties in proving abilities they claim to have.

Lots of "certified professional" Java/SAP/etc programmers cannot write any code outside an IDE or without context help, leave alone implement simple algorithms like quicksort or basic functions for binary search trees.

Re: ADHD Drugs Don't Boost Kids' Grades, Studies Find

#107

Post by dedward »

loceng wrote: post #97
X-Istence wrote: post #22

Each time a study comes out and people will link it to me (I've already had this linked to me three times) claiming that my ADHD medicine doesn't do anything and that it is worthless ... for me it isn't. Without my meds I wouldn't be able to concentrate, I wouldn't be able to get work done. At one point it got so bad at work that I was afraid I was going to get fired since I couldn't focus on any single task at hand…

During your "doctor recommended breaks" - try doing diet cleanses, elimination diet. Many foods, very common ones - wheat, dairy, eggs, soy, potatoes, almonds, etc - can cause ADD-like thinking through irritation (that you may notice or not) in your intestinal tract, etc.. Then there is also childhood emotion repression that could be a cause to ADD / scattered thinking. Food and past trauma are two things to always l…

is there any scientific evidence for "cleanses" at all? Because the word "cleanse" sets off my BS detector like crazy.

Re: ADHD Drugs Don't Boost Kids' Grades, Studies Find

#108

Post by DavidBradbury »

linohh wrote: post #30
X-Istence wrote: post #22

Each time a study comes out and people will link it to me (I've already had this linked to me three times) claiming that my ADHD medicine doesn't do anything and that it is worthless ... for me it isn't. Without my meds I wouldn't be able to concentrate, I wouldn't be able to get work done. At one point it got so bad at work that I was afraid I was going to get fired since I couldn't focus on any single task at hand…

What many people don't understand is the stress people with ADD are exposed to. Especially when they're smart. Imagine having a porsche in your driveway, but for reasons you can only use the first gear. No matter how hard you push the pedal to the metal, you won't be as fast as you want the car to go. Plus if you keep going full throttle in the first gear eventually you'll break something. Sounds depressing, doesn't…

>If the ADD patient is lucky, the correct diagnosis is made. If unlucky, he may be treated for borderline, depressions, etc. Antidepressants may worsen the condition, because they may increase motivation without increasing ability.

Not ADD here, but starting around age 12, my body started freaking out every 4-8 months or so and suddenly my heart-rate would shoot up uncontrollably and my blood pressure would drop out. They told me to lay down and try breathing slowly, and eventually it went away (I was lucky). I was diagnosed with GAD/Panic Disorder with depression. Several years later I ended up actually developing a sever case of panic disorder and agoraphobia, mostly because I was told I had it for so many years.

Turns out I actually had Wolff–Parkinson–White syndrome - A heart condition where you have an extra electrical pathway in your heart. Had surgery for that last year and haven't had an episode since. Still struggling with the agoraphobia though. I can only imagine how my life would be different right now had I gotten the correct diagnosis.

Re: ADHD Drugs Don't Boost Kids' Grades, Studies Find

#109

Post by jessriedel »

nsmartt wrote: post #39
jessriedel wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I welcome people constructively criticizing the study, but this kind of anecdotal response is really not useful.

The parent seems more like a comment on the reaction to the study rather than on the validity of the study.

Sure, but the problem is that it's upvoted on HN. Maybe if it had some sort of other key insight, but it doesn't. It only says "here is my anecdotal experience which contradicts the data, I feel really strongly about it." I have no problem with X-Istence or his comment per se, I just wish this thread wasn't filled with these stories.

Re: ADHD Drugs Don't Boost Kids' Grades, Studies Find

#110

Post by jessriedel »

benjamincburns wrote: post #38
jessriedel wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I welcome people constructively criticizing the study, but this kind of anecdotal response is really not useful.

I had some trepidation over this when deciding whether or not to post my own anecdotes. In the end I decided that while it's not useful as a criticism of the study it's absolutely useful to curb the conclusion, that ADHD drugs are broadly ineffective, which this presentation of the study might suggest. Edit: As an example the caption of Dr. Farah's photo reads "Dr. Martha Farah and colleagues found no cognitive benef…

If so, I would suggest saying "In assessing this study, it's important to keep in mind the huge difference between grade improvement and general cognitive effects." Then, maybe you could quote a different study that found cognitive effects (which undoubtedly exist). And then, if you really thought it useful, you could say "my anecdotal experience conflicts with this" and leave it at that. But the problem with these human-interest stories is they grab people's hearts and keeping them from thinking clearly about this stuff.

Here's an exercise: try translating your anecdotal experience into boring clinical language, e.g. "one 27 year-old male subject had a small statistically insignificant increase in grades, and self-reported feeling more focused."

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