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Estonian E-Voting Source Code Made Public

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Re: Estonian E-Voting Source Code Made Public

#81

Post by skrebbel »

eli wrote: post #79
skrebbel wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're getting off topic, but you do know that it's perfectly possible to write decent Java or C# without it being "enterprise", right? (whatever that means) I'm starting to get sick of this "ruby/python/nodejs = cool, java/.net = slow bloated enterprise crap for men with suits" attitude that keeps reappearing here on HN. Whether your work environment is cool, whether your code is decent and snappy, all that has very…

Java Enterprise Edition is the name of an Oracle product. http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javaee/overview/index... It's "enterprise" literally by definition.

Indeed, and so it's uncool and crappier than Python? How is that related? The OP clearly used the term "enterprise" with a negative connotation. I doubt he was referring to a brand name.

Re: Estonian E-Voting Source Code Made Public

#83

Post by eli »

vidarh wrote: post #37
halviti wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(1) Even the simplest paper ballots are already counted by computer (central tabulators). Central tabulators that run on insecure computers and do all of their math using the most rudimentary microsoft access databases (no password protection, little user control, remote access via dial-up modem). (2) Slot machines are already protecting millions upon millions of dollars from countless people who would love to be abl…

> (2) Slot machines are already protecting millions upon millions of dollars from countless people who would love to be able to modify those machines' behavior. There difference is motivation. If a slot machine pays out too much, the company that makes them won't get any more business. If a voting machine favours certain candidates, those candidates benefit from letting that continue (if they weren't instigating it t…

Slot machines will also happily record a timestamped log of every interaction with the system and the outcome. Which is exactly what you don't want in a voting machine.

Re: Estonian E-Voting Source Code Made Public

#85

Post by oceanstone »

Fargren wrote: post #76
oceanstone wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These are examples of Voting Fraud. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vote_selling Secret ballots make it easier to pull off.

Secret ballots make it easier to pull off. How so?

In 2000, there was a voting scandal regarding the presidential election in the USA. It involved allegations of votes being paid for, to secure a victory for Bush in Florida, among other states.

An open ballot could have prevented this.

Re: Estonian E-Voting Source Code Made Public

#86

Post by oceanstone »

eli wrote: post #71
oceanstone wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vote selling is a form of Voting Fraud. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vote_selling Secret ballots make it even easier to pull off.

Huh? Selling your vote is extremely difficult with a closed ballot and extremely easy with an open ballot. Do you mean that the vote selling is offset by ending other forms of voting fraud? Other forms of voting fraud are incredibly rare.

In the Gore vs. Bush election, there were potentially a lot of votes sold.

Re: Estonian E-Voting Source Code Made Public

#87

Post by joelthelion »

skrebbel wrote: post #81
eli wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Java Enterprise Edition is the name of an Oracle product. http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javaee/overview/index... It's "enterprise" literally by definition.

Indeed, and so it's uncool and crappier than Python? How is that related? The OP clearly used the term "enterprise" with a negative connotation. I doubt he was referring to a brand name.

There is a verbose and enterprisy smell to the language itself. Just compare the hello worlds in java and python...

Apart from that, I agree with you.

Re: Estonian E-Voting Source Code Made Public

#88

Post by Fargren »

oceanstone wrote: post #85
Fargren wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Secret ballots make it easier to pull off. How so?

In 2000, there was a voting scandal regarding the presidential election in the USA. It involved allegations of votes being paid for, to secure a victory for Bush in Florida, among other states. An open ballot could have prevented this.

But the discussion was about vote selling. I don't see how open ballots make that harder. The opposite seems to be true.

Re: Estonian E-Voting Source Code Made Public

#89

Post by yaddayadda »

Fargren wrote: post #78
yaddayadda wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once there is an easy online system in place then alternatives to an all or nothing vote could be established. For example, you may vote for a representative every X years and this representative would vote for you when you opted not to. Over the course of X years there are hundreds of votes, but you are passionate about 20 of them. You could directly cast a vote on those 20 issues, but your representative would cast…

What happens when there's a big decision that heavily affects media interests? They start using their sway on public opinion to make the decision important, and a disproportionate number of people become "passionate" about an issue they don't really know more than they were fed. There are probably other problems, but I don't think this one is small.

I don't disagree. There are other potential problems also, such as protection of minorities. But right now I don't have the OPTION to vote directly, even if I do know more than my elected official. Online election systems can provide such options. Was my elevator spiel for one possible method perfect - no. But hopefully it got you and other readers thinking about the general concept (it appears it got you thinking about it), possible challenges (it definitely got you thinking about it), and possible benefits (yet to be seen).

Re: Estonian E-Voting Source Code Made Public

#90

Post by yaddayadda »

eli wrote: post #73
yaddayadda wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivs 3.0 Unported License" is an "open source" license. The source code itself is "open" and can be redistributed for free (beer not speech). But it is disappointing that they have opted to prohibit derivatives, and it makes their posting of the code to GitHub an interesting choice.

A pull request would technically be violating the license, no?

IANAL, but as I understand the license, yes it would violate the license. Although, if I released something under a no-derivatives license on github, I'd be less worried about pull requests and more worried about derivatives made outside GitHub.
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