Microsoft helped the NSA bypass encryption, new Snowden leak reveals • Hacker News Board

Re: Microsoft helped the NSA bypass encryption, new Snowden leak reveals

#41

Post by Spooky23 » Fri, Jul 12, 2013, 2:10 PM UTC

JonFish85 wrote: post #8

_b8r0 wrote: post #2

The sad thing about all of this is that Microsoft were pretty much forced into this position (so we're told) by the authorities. In the process these leaks have just destroyed pretty much any credibility Microsoft's online services had, which form large parts of their strategy (according to the recent Ballmer memo). It also makes you wonder about the OS and other software they produce, which isn't a good place for MS…

I think it's wrong to say Microsoft was "forced" into this. In a sense, they made their own bed. I have to believe that the majority of Microsoft's money is based off of serving governments and huge corporations (Windows + Office). It just makes sense that they'll want to keep those relationships.

It's not in Microsoft's interest to function as defacto agents of the US government. They are compelled by law to do what the Feds want -- just like would would be if you we're providing a service.

Think about the impact of the NSA leaks on Microsoft's business. Globally, every customer or potential customer of Microsoft needs to ask whether they can trust Micrsoft as a business partner. Not a good place to be on for a software company transitioning to a cloud services company.

Re: Microsoft helped the NSA bypass encryption, new Snowden leak reveals

#42

Post by hypercube » Fri, Jul 12, 2013, 2:15 PM UTC

rimantas wrote: post #36

FridayWithJohn wrote: post #25

Yet another reason to stick to open source.

Ok, I have full open-source stack and run a cloud service on it. I also give NSA full access to my servers. How does open-source helps there?

Why does the NSA have full access to your servers? Even if they manually wiretap your server it would require manual intervention, and is thus a good protection against blanket surveillance.

Re: Microsoft helped the NSA bypass encryption, new Snowden leak reveals

#43

Post by sixothree » Fri, Jul 12, 2013, 2:15 PM UTC

nr0mx wrote: post #4

Puts this in an entirely different light, doesn't it: Even when ostensibly not functioning, the Xbox One can run in a low-powered state, ready to be snapped on at a moment's notice. That's something Microsoft was showing off last week as an asset. The only on-switch Microsoft showed for waking the machine from its low-power state was a voice command... "Xbox On." The Xbox One could only hear that if the Kinect was al…

It's almost as if the device was designed with surveillance in mind.

Re: Microsoft helped the NSA bypass encryption, new Snowden leak reveals

#44

Post by psbp » Fri, Jul 12, 2013, 2:19 PM UTC

mikevm wrote: post #5

_b8r0 wrote: post #2

The sad thing about all of this is that Microsoft were pretty much forced into this position (so we're told) by the authorities. In the process these leaks have just destroyed pretty much any credibility Microsoft's online services had, which form large parts of their strategy (according to the recent Ballmer memo). It also makes you wonder about the OS and other software they produce, which isn't a good place for MS…

I'm not sure why you're picking on Microsoft. The credibility of pretty much every large US-based tech services company is probably destroyed. The fact that we only saw the big service providers (MS, Google, etc...) on those slides doesn't mean that the other companies are free from the hands of the NSA. Do you think that the NSA has no access to Dropbox?

Dropbox was listed as "coming soon"

Re: Microsoft helped the NSA bypass encryption, new Snowden leak reveals

#45

Post by dmix » Fri, Jul 12, 2013, 2:19 PM UTC

Osmium wrote: post #30

RexRollman wrote: post #17

This whole thing makes me very suspicious of Apple's and Microsoft's whole disk encryption technologies. I can't help but wonder if back doors have been inserted into the products.

Not impossible, but some smart people have been looking, at least for Apple's FileVault 2: http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2012/08/an_analysis_of... Paper here: http://eprint.iacr.org/2012/374.pdf Currently, there seem to be three vectors: 1) Weak passwords 2) If you opt-in to store a recovery key with Apple 3) If attacker has physical access to machine, and machine is powered on (direct memory access via Thund…

> 3) If attacker has physical access to machine, and machine is powered on (direct memory access via Thunderbolt or Firewire)

I'm curious if this could be addressed with software protections somehow? Something that triggers memory wipes and automatic shutdowns?

Re: Microsoft helped the NSA bypass encryption, new Snowden leak reveals

#46

Post by Arnor » Fri, Jul 12, 2013, 2:24 PM UTC

"It's hard to square Microsoft's secret collaboration with the NSA with its high-profile efforts to compete on privacy with Google."

I think it squares quite nicely. Set your standards low enough...

Re: Microsoft helped the NSA bypass encryption, new Snowden leak reveals

#47

Post by nthj » Fri, Jul 12, 2013, 2:24 PM UTC

kybernetyk wrote: post #32

RexRollman wrote: post #17

This whole thing makes me very suspicious of Apple's and Microsoft's whole disk encryption technologies. I can't help but wonder if back doors have been inserted into the products.

The best part is when OS X asks you if you want to store the encryption 'recovery key' on Apple's servers ...

1) That's probably a perfectly reasonable option for my grandma. *

2) It provides Apple a fallback when some idiot loses 6 figures worth of IP. “We understand sir, you see, if you had chosen to backup your recovery key with us we would be able to help you”

* or would be, if the NSA wasn't spying on everything.

Re: Microsoft helped the NSA bypass encryption, new Snowden leak reveals

#48

Post by mafribe » Fri, Jul 12, 2013, 2:26 PM UTC

Sharlin wrote: post #18

xedarius wrote: post #13

Then I start thinking about when Microsoft were being dragged through the competition and monopolies commission in the US, was this the US Government showing Microsoft what would happen if they didn't cooperate.

A half-serious conspiracy theory: The feds "encouraged" Microsoft to acquire Skype so as to obtain decrypted access to the communications.

Skype belonged to EBay before. But I agree, acquiring a global communication provider like Skype makes a lot of sense form a snooper's point of view.

Re: Microsoft helped the NSA bypass encryption, new Snowden leak reveals

#49

Post by walls » Fri, Jul 12, 2013, 2:27 PM UTC

eliasmacpherson wrote: post #10

seferphier wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. sadly, i doubt that many people would care about privacy concerns.

an always on microphone, with fixed hardware and software, phoning home at regular intervals has a big target sign painted on it.

Yeah it's insane to think that anyone would own some kind of device that has a microphone and camera accessible by a third party, right?

I mean what's next, they're going to make these things small enough that we can carry them everywhere?

Re: Microsoft helped the NSA bypass encryption, new Snowden leak reveals

#50

Post by a3n » Fri, Jul 12, 2013, 2:29 PM UTC

hypercube wrote: post #42

rimantas wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, I have full open-source stack and run a cloud service on it. I also give NSA full access to my servers. How does open-source helps there?

Why does the NSA have full access to your servers? Even if they manually wiretap your server it would require manual intervention, and is thus a good protection against blanket surveillance.

"Why does the NSA have full access to your servers?"

Because they ordered him to give it, and he elected not to go to jail.