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Do the right thing, wait to get fired

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Re: Do the right thing, wait to get fired

#71

Post by goblin89 »

snowwrestler wrote: post #47

In general, rules are for under to average performers--to keep them from causing harm. If you're a true expert, you can break the rules in your areas of expertise to get a good result. If you break the rules and get a worse result...probably you weren't actually the expert you thought you were. So practice some humble introspection before breaking all the rules. NOTE 1: A "good result" can include a failed experiment…

Indeed. One should refer to the rules when one's in doubt. However, this assumes that everyone in company is equally humble, excellent at communication, and proficient at their job. Since most companies are unable to hire that well (maybe it's impossible), no one would admit that rules are not mandatory.

This leaves an expert in a complex situation: everyone says you have to follow the rules, but you also know that The Right Thing is not in 100% compliance with them.

If you're humble enough, you choose to follow the rules, because—well—you naturally assume that people who wrote these rules are more proficient. Then, after a while, you become very disappointed when you see that you didn't do The Right Thing only because people who hire and make the rules didn't do their job properly.

If you choose to break the rules, you wait to get fired. If you don't, that may mean simply that nobody has noticed you. Or maybe they have, but chose not to speak to you about it—you can't tell, but you feel like you're an outlaw. And if you do get fired in the end, you become not so inclined to break the rules from now on (unless you have OP's self-confidence).

Re: Do the right thing, wait to get fired

#72

Post by marrs »

jarek wrote: post #66
jakobe wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that there are no signs on the fence explaining why it is there, and the people who raised it are nowhere to be found, and the most likely reason for its existence is unreasonable paranoia.

> the most likely reason for its existence is unreasonable paranoia Spoken like someone who's never walked across a minefield ;)

And farmers still plough up mines in the Somme, because they still have to plant next years crops.

Re: Do the right thing, wait to get fired

#73

Post by marrs »

foobarbazqux wrote: post #24
nbouscal wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was clear from the context that he was not using 'schizophrenic' as a medical label (since he was not applying it to a human), but rather as a metaphor that most people would easily understand. Picking nits does not contribute to the conversation, but rather diverts from it (as we can observe happening in this very comment). Since you seem to have an opinion on the conversation, namely that the goals he lists are…

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/schizophrenic What can I say, the informal usage of the word irritates me. I'm sure if he said that companies are kind of gay, and then proceeded to list a bunch of qualities that had nothing to do with homosexuality but rather the informal usage of the term (as we all know all too well from high school), it would be a problem. Same thing.

Would it also be a problem if they listed qualities like happy and frivolous? Or is that a legitimate definition of gay in your eyes?

Re: Do the right thing, wait to get fired

#74

Post by sas »

crazygringo wrote: post #17

I'm not exactly disagreeing, but don't forget the other side too -- that you might not know what you're doing, that you might not understand the good reasons that certain rules are in place, that you might not understand the big picture and that your actions might backfire and/or be counterproductive. Don't forget to be humble too, and realize that what you think is the right thing, isn't always the right thing. Ther…

Chesterton's Fence!

"In the matter of reforming things, as distinct from deforming them, there is one plain and simple principle; a principle which will probably be called a paradox. There exists in such a case a certain institution or law; let us say, for the sake of simplicity, a fence or gate erected across a road. The more modern type of reformer goes gaily up to it and says, “I don’t see the use of this; let us clear it away.” To which the more intelligent type of reformer will do well to answer: “If you don’t see the use of it, I certainly won’t let you clear it away. Go away and think. Then, when you can come back and tell me that you do see the use of it, I may allow you to destroy it."

Re: Do the right thing, wait to get fired

#75

Post by arethuza »

marrs wrote: post #72
jarek wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the most likely reason for its existence is unreasonable paranoia Spoken like someone who's never walked across a minefield ;)

And farmers still plough up mines in the Somme, because they still have to plant next years crops.

On that subject, unexploded ordnance (UXO) is a real danger for the Crossrail tunnels deep under London:

http://www.londonreconnections.com/2012/a-legacy-of-iron-cro...

Re: Do the right thing, wait to get fired

#77

Post by bittired »

I completely and wholeheartedly disagree with this post.

Though Google might be the pinnacle of employment, at most jobs, if you leave, you can often get a salary or rate increase. On top of that, some employers will ask if you got fired and you have to explain that, even if you were only laid off.

Terrible advice!

Re: Do the right thing, wait to get fired

#78

Post by JoeAltmaier »

sas wrote: post #74
crazygringo wrote: post #17

I'm not exactly disagreeing, but don't forget the other side too -- that you might not know what you're doing, that you might not understand the good reasons that certain rules are in place, that you might not understand the big picture and that your actions might backfire and/or be counterproductive. Don't forget to be humble too, and realize that what you think is the right thing, isn't always the right thing. Ther…

Chesterton's Fence! "In the matter of reforming things, as distinct from deforming them, there is one plain and simple principle; a principle which will probably be called a paradox. There exists in such a case a certain institution or law; let us say, for the sake of simplicity, a fence or gate erected across a road. The more modern type of reformer goes gaily up to it and says, “I don’t see the use of this; let us…

Yes, but sometimes the road is nothing but gates. By crossing the fence and running across the field, we harm no-one on the road, and we get places.

Re: Do the right thing, wait to get fired

#79

Post by JoeAltmaier »

bittired wrote: post #77

I completely and wholeheartedly disagree with this post. Though Google might be the pinnacle of employment, at most jobs, if you leave, you can often get a salary or rate increase. On top of that, some employers will ask if you got fired and you have to explain that, even if you were only laid off. Terrible advice!

Its a matter of temperament and skill set. If you fear getting rehired somewhere else easily, then yes it may not work for you at all.

But if your skills are easily marketable then yes you can do a lot of good this way, behaving fearlessly and with integrity.

Re: Do the right thing, wait to get fired

#80

Post by joefiorini »

ozataman wrote: post #42
crazygringo wrote: post #17

I'm not exactly disagreeing, but don't forget the other side too -- that you might not know what you're doing, that you might not understand the good reasons that certain rules are in place, that you might not understand the big picture and that your actions might backfire and/or be counterproductive. Don't forget to be humble too, and realize that what you think is the right thing, isn't always the right thing. Ther…

In further support of these points... Thinking outside the box, breaking the rules as a last resort to do the right thing and other similar actions can indeed produce the extraordinary results, in certain situations, the organization is hoping for after all. Yet this strategy will work only for the very top performers: Those who can sense and actually produce the truly largest "contribution" to their company (as oppo…

At an earlier point in my career I was exactly the "highly technical person" in the above comment. I have always taken the approach to my work outlined in the OP, and therefore my emphasis on "getting it right" has caused me to switch jobs quite a bit over the past few years.

For people like me, understanding business constraints is crucial. We must constantly question decisions, not to condescend, but to understand.

Once I understand the context behind a decision, I can then decide if I agree with it or not. If I don't, then I'm in a fight-or-flight situation: try to change it (may not be a reasonable option) or get out as soon as my commitments allow.

Typically once I understand the constraints I start to less like a cog and more like part of a larger effort to ship in spite of our difficulties.

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