Even if the "feds" aren't officially invited to run a booth and take applications, they're gonna show up anyways probably three weeks before the event to install facial recognition cameras and audio recording bugs in all the hotel rooms (;
Secure Ideas will not be presenting at DEF CON this year
51–60 of 94 posts
Re: Secure Ideas will not be presenting at DEF CON this year
#52[deleted]
Re: Secure Ideas will not be presenting at DEF CON this year
#53Anyone can attend DEF CON, including feds that leave their badges in their wallets. That being the case, this statement was made for the benefit of exactly one audience: government procurement departments.
Re: Secure Ideas will not be presenting at DEF CON this year
#54Earlier quoted context omitted.
Ordinary citizens talking to the NSA isn't going to stop them, it's more likely to get those same concerned citizens put on any number of watchlists. At the moment, I have some serious doubt that even Congress can stop the NSA and am quite sure they're not going to bother, aside from making a little noise so it looks like they're defending The Constitution. What will put a stop to this is a Presidential Order, but th…
Ugh this fear mixed with cynicism is so gross! Ordinary Citizens have always been the driving force behind every major change in this country. Talk to everyone you can about this and for Christ's sake try a little positivity!
> Ordinary Citizens have always been the driving force behind every major change in this country
Sooo cute.
Re: Secure Ideas will not be presenting at DEF CON this year
#55Earlier quoted context omitted.
> but if the very netsec community doesn't have the balls to stand up to the extreme over-reach of the NSA, then we are farked. I would agree with this much more if they had previously had a statement suggesting that feds from oppressive foreign regimes were not invited. As a non-US citizen, there is a sentiment of "it was OK when we thought they were just doing it to foreigners" about much of this debate. However, t…
I'm sure this will just further your impression of the general sentiment, but I want to try to explain it as a US citizen. The biggest problem many people have with what the NSA has been revealed to be doing is that it breaks laws regarding the US government's ability to invade the privacy of its citizens, and it does so in secret, precluding real democratic oversight. While spying on foreigners may be unsavory, it d…
Thank you for taking the time to respond. I can certainly understand the feelings of betrayal and injustice that comes from a government breaking the law to spy on its own citizens.
I have been working in the information security industry for just shy of a decade and while I have been openly accepted to attend/participate/speak at events, I have always felt that it is a US-centric industry. I had assumed that this is because of the huge amount of government money invested in to corporations and individuals that make up the community.
One of the things that I love about DEF CON is that it is big enough to make it truly international, when teamed with Black Hat it makes that week in Vegas unmissable. This stance on feds, by many people who I would call friends, gives the impression that they were happy to work/contract for the US gov while they knew they were targeting foreigners but not citizens.
Re: Secure Ideas will not be presenting at DEF CON this year
#56Looks like somebody wants to nominate themselves for a government contract. A statement such as "We believe the exclusion of the "feds" this year does the exact opposite at a critical time." is just ridiculous. Even more bizarre is the idea of mentioning openness in the (current) government context. If there is a positive effect between the openness of the hacker community and the Feds then why did we end up with the…
> Looks like somebody wants to nominate themselves for a government contract. Interesting how when the news media baselessly questions the motives of whistleblowers it's a "smear campaign." When someone on HN does it to someone who's vaguely pro-NSA it's the top comment.
May it be because those whistleblowers did something right, while the NSA did something wrong?
Or, could also be because governments normally pay lots and lots of people for holding opinion, while normally there is nobody paying for the opposite side.
Re: Secure Ideas will not be presenting at DEF CON this year
#57Earlier quoted context omitted.
Ugh this fear mixed with cynicism is so gross! Ordinary Citizens have always been the driving force behind every major change in this country. Talk to everyone you can about this and for Christ's sake try a little positivity!
> Ordinary Citizens have always been the driving force behind every major change in this country Sooo cute.
If you're going to rebut, don't be condescending about it. And offer information, too.
Re: Secure Ideas will not be presenting at DEF CON this year
#58I don't agree with the statement that Secure Ideas makes; they are opting out because DEFCON is supposed to be an open collaboration place, but if the very netsec community doesn't have the balls to stand up to the extreme over-reach of the NSA, then we are farked. Yes, most of us have known for years the extent of the spying the NSA/USG does -- and I believe it's time to take back some individual sovereignty -- the…
> I have no respect for the NSA and its apologists, period. Do you lack respect for those people, or their arguments?
Your comment made me think of something.. Let me ask you:
THe NSA in specific and the intelligence community in general clearly believes that the information about, opinions of and actions by equate to "a person" -- if they did not, they would not be surveilling what they are.
Your question of whether I respect the "people" or their "arguments", appears to me, to be loaded.
It's as if you're attempting to determine if I make a distinction between the people in the positions of NSA staff vs. the actions they take as a willing person under employ.
I respect people: human beings. As a human being I see myself as a part of a singular species on a, thus far, singular planet in our universe. I am not an enemy of humanity - I am an advocate of it. The opinions arguments and actions of planetary governments though appear to actually be at odds with humanity and its longevity.
So, on the one hand we have an agencies actions which distill a person to their digital DNA; analyses, evaluates and judges it coming to a conclusion in whole as to what that person "is" and a schism in our culture that you appear to be attempting to exploit: your question is attempting to play to my "humanity" with these being people who are just making decisions and arguments in line with the "orders and directives" of an institutional body such as the NSA/USG.
Let me be very clear; I don't care who anyone works for, if you are attempting to control, oppress, exploit or succeed at the expense of people as a whole - you are an enemy to humanity.
You could be an individual, a group, a corporation or a government. I stand for both my individual sovereignty and the collective well being of my species and civilization.
This is what sets us apart from the insects; we are capable of thriving as collective individuals as opposed to hive-minded slaves.
Re: Secure Ideas will not be presenting at DEF CON this year
#59Wow, I got my talk down to "you or one other talk" and wasn't accepted (I did apply late). Tempted to see if they'll let me replace Secure Ideas. I have no problem with the "feds, please stay home" policy.
Re: Secure Ideas will not be presenting at DEF CON this year
#60Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Government loves to really up the public with the us vs them rhetoric so they definitely deserve a dose of their own medicine. That sounds like it would increase the us-vs-them rhetoric, not decrease it.
No pill can heal that wound. Imagine you're a Government worker with 15y of experience. You would automagically think about the public as "them". If you're an Admin or IT-Guy, you "already" do that, by separating you from the "Common User". And guess what, there is nothing wrong with this. It doesn't produce bad habits or bad intentions, because this is totally dependant on the persons character.
> totally dependent on the persons character
Certain positions invite certain characters.