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Secure Ideas will not be presenting at DEF CON this year

blog.secureideas.com

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Re: Secure Ideas will not be presenting at DEF CON this year

#41

Post by Nrsolis »

sanderjd wrote: post #38
throwawayDC21 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but if the very netsec community doesn't have the balls to stand up to the extreme over-reach of the NSA, then we are farked. I would agree with this much more if they had previously had a statement suggesting that feds from oppressive foreign regimes were not invited. As a non-US citizen, there is a sentiment of "it was OK when we thought they were just doing it to foreigners" about much of this debate. However, t…

I'm sure this will just further your impression of the general sentiment, but I want to try to explain it as a US citizen. The biggest problem many people have with what the NSA has been revealed to be doing is that it breaks laws regarding the US government's ability to invade the privacy of its citizens, and it does so in secret, precluding real democratic oversight. While spying on foreigners may be unsavory, it d…

I agree with your sentiment.

It's worthwhile to note that people have often stated that the Constitution is not a "suicide pact". We are free (as a people) do what needs to be done to preserve our union. Whatever your political persuasion, it cannot be denied that bad actors are trying to coordinate and plan attacks against "soft" targets inside the United States and abroad. This is not a theoretical problem. It's real.

What is extremely unsavory about this entire affair is that the entire citizenry has somehow become a suspect. Every snippet of our communiques, interests, and associations is now considered "fair game". This has been done without ANY meaningful discussion in the public sphere. We, as a people, have been misled and our desire to understand what our government has been doing has been ignored. This is wrong.

I don't agree with Snowden's actions. I think he handled it the wrong way if what he wanted was to bring attention to this state of affairs. There are many who feel like he might have done this for personal glory or with traitorous intent. I'm not convinced one way or another, but I'm not happy with how this has unfolded.

I'm glad that there are enough people paying attention to this devils bargain we've made in the pursuit of security and I hope we get some resolution before things go back to the status quo.

We need to have a national conversation about this. The sooner the better. If there is a silver lining in Snowden's actions, I hope this is it.

Re: Secure Ideas will not be presenting at DEF CON this year

#42

Post by chris_mahan »

chris_mahan wrote: post #35
rmrfrmrf wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My major problem with the PRISM debacle was less that the NSA stores and analyzes Internet traffic (although it's perfectly reasonable to be upset about it) and more that they were doing it secretively (mixed with some disgust at how much money, energy, and time must be wasted storing and sifting through unfathomable amounts of data). With that in mind, it's kind of counterintuitive to close the door to conversation…

I think the NSA and friends are underestimating the amount of anger out there, and that the Congresscritters will probably try for a reduction of the NSA's budget to punish them for lying to them. The future of the organization might not be in jeopardy (although from the way congressmen seem peeved, it might) but there will definitely be cutbacks across the entire surveillance business.

See http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/lawmakers-say-adminis... from the Washington Post. See the following paragraph on the page 1: "“The national security state has grown so that any administration is now not upfront with Congress,” said Rep. Jerrold Nadler (D-N.Y.), a senior member of the House Judiciary Committee. “It’s an imbalance that’s grown in our government, and one that we have to cleanse.”" as well as the last 5 paragraphs:

(para 1) Clapper’s statement prompted some lawmakers to allege what Rep. Justin Amash (R-Mich.) called a “double standard” in which a top official could deliver false testimony without fear of penalty.

(para 2) “If the administration has a policy to lie to Congress about classified materials in unclassified hearings, then you have to ask yourself what value the hearings have and whether or not anyone else is doing it,” said Rep. Mick Mulvaney (R-S.C.).

(para 3) Some are calling for a major overhaul of the current oversight system, including the intelligence committees and the surveillance court, which were created in the late 1970s amid growing concern about U.S. spy practices following Watergate, the Vietnam War and revelations about CIA efforts to overthrow foreign governments.

(para 4) Congress “tried to make agencies which have to operate in secret accountable nevertheless to the law,” said former vice president Walter F. Mondale, who as a senator was a member of the Church Committee, which led the efforts to overhaul the system.

(para 5) Now, Mondale said, “that system has totally collapsed.” He said Clapper’s willingness to mislead the public during Senate testimony “is what happens when there’s no accountability. . . . What is the consequence of fibbing to the American people?”

This seems to indicate to me that some congressmen are indeed interested in changing things around.

Re: Secure Ideas will not be presenting at DEF CON this year

#43

Post by bpatrianakos »

jgross206 wrote: post #40
stfu wrote: post #12

Looks like somebody wants to nominate themselves for a government contract. A statement such as "We believe the exclusion of the "feds" this year does the exact opposite at a critical time." is just ridiculous. Even more bizarre is the idea of mentioning openness in the (current) government context. If there is a positive effect between the openness of the hacker community and the Feds then why did we end up with the…

> Looks like somebody wants to nominate themselves for a government contract. Interesting how when the news media baselessly questions the motives of whistleblowers it's a "smear campaign." When someone on HN does it to someone who's vaguely pro-NSA it's the top comment.

He's not even vaguely pro-NSA. He's pro-openness. The fact that this is the top comment is sad and its a testament to knee-jerk reactions in echo chambers around the world. There's a difference between the government as an entity and individuals who are employed by them. Feds attending DEF CON aren't really Feds, their security guys like everyone else there. Depending on the context one could be a fed first and other things second but at DEF CON that's not the case and barring a certain group of people turns it into a situation where you're labelled based on what you don't have in common with other attendees rather than being welcomed because of what everyone at the even shares.

Re: Secure Ideas will not be presenting at DEF CON this year

#44

Post by jff »

nookiemonster wrote: post #28

Drama.exe There's this thing called sequestration going on that's disrupting the budgets of all the federal agencies. The feds are cutting budget for ridiculous things like the blue angels. But they're totally going to be maintaining the budget for hacker cons in Las Vegas. This is all about street cred for defcon & nothing to do with "taking a break." Jeff Moss is too sophisticated to be throwing away all those rela…

After the GSA stunt a few years ago, you bet conference budgets have been cut. Departments are given a set budget for each conference--if I remember right, the DOE allocates $100k max per conference. Sounds like a lot, but then you see what happened to last year's Supercomputing conference. That's a weeklong conference traditionally attended by many of the DOE's large supercomputing community. $100k does not send many people to a week-long conference. This was enough to cause very notable effects on the conference as a whole; outlets such as The Register even commented on it. I've heard rumors that some companies may not be going this year because without the DOE there, it's just not as valuable for HPC vendors.

Re: Secure Ideas will not be presenting at DEF CON this year

#45

Post by a3n »

chris_mahan wrote: post #35
rmrfrmrf wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My major problem with the PRISM debacle was less that the NSA stores and analyzes Internet traffic (although it's perfectly reasonable to be upset about it) and more that they were doing it secretively (mixed with some disgust at how much money, energy, and time must be wasted storing and sifting through unfathomable amounts of data). With that in mind, it's kind of counterintuitive to close the door to conversation…

I think the NSA and friends are underestimating the amount of anger out there, and that the Congresscritters will probably try for a reduction of the NSA's budget to punish them for lying to them. The future of the organization might not be in jeopardy (although from the way congressmen seem peeved, it might) but there will definitely be cutbacks across the entire surveillance business.

"Congresscritters will probably try for a reduction of the NSA's budget"

Not if the leadership and seniors have anything to do with it. Boehner called Snowden a traitor; he doesn't want to be told what Snowden knows. And Feinstein has defended the programs.

Wyden and Udall are in the minority. Everyone else on the Senate Intelligence Committee heard what those two heard, and there were no words of discontent or reform beyond what those two said. Indeed, most of you probably know their names only because of their faint opposition. They've been speaking as much as they dare for years, which means the rest of the committee has known for years. And yet, nothing.

Re: Secure Ideas will not be presenting at DEF CON this year

#46

Post by wavesounds »

Is Defcon worried about fights breaking out or something? You know the 'feds' are going to be there anyway. At least if they were in the open then everyone could give them a piece of their minds and maybe convince some of them to quit their jobs or at least give more consideration to the other perspective.

Re: Secure Ideas will not be presenting at DEF CON this year

#47

Post by chris_mahan »

a3n wrote: post #45
chris_mahan wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the NSA and friends are underestimating the amount of anger out there, and that the Congresscritters will probably try for a reduction of the NSA's budget to punish them for lying to them. The future of the organization might not be in jeopardy (although from the way congressmen seem peeved, it might) but there will definitely be cutbacks across the entire surveillance business.

"Congresscritters will probably try for a reduction of the NSA's budget" Not if the leadership and seniors have anything to do with it. Boehner called Snowden a traitor; he doesn't want to be told what Snowden knows. And Feinstein has defended the programs. Wyden and Udall are in the minority. Everyone else on the Senate Intelligence Committee heard what those two heard, and there were no words of discontent or refor…

Congressmen have to be re-elected, and they have to show to their constituents that they have done _something_ to protect their privacy... There will be change.

Re: Secure Ideas will not be presenting at DEF CON this year

#48

Post by chris_mahan »

drivingmenuts wrote: post #27
rmrfrmrf wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My major problem with the PRISM debacle was less that the NSA stores and analyzes Internet traffic (although it's perfectly reasonable to be upset about it) and more that they were doing it secretively (mixed with some disgust at how much money, energy, and time must be wasted storing and sifting through unfathomable amounts of data). With that in mind, it's kind of counterintuitive to close the door to conversation…

Ordinary citizens talking to the NSA isn't going to stop them, it's more likely to get those same concerned citizens put on any number of watchlists. At the moment, I have some serious doubt that even Congress can stop the NSA and am quite sure they're not going to bother, aside from making a little noise so it looks like they're defending The Constitution. What will put a stop to this is a Presidential Order, but th…

Congress can cut funding without asking anyone else for permission.

Re: Secure Ideas will not be presenting at DEF CON this year

#49

Post by drivingmenuts »

a3n wrote: post #45
chris_mahan wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the NSA and friends are underestimating the amount of anger out there, and that the Congresscritters will probably try for a reduction of the NSA's budget to punish them for lying to them. The future of the organization might not be in jeopardy (although from the way congressmen seem peeved, it might) but there will definitely be cutbacks across the entire surveillance business.

"Congresscritters will probably try for a reduction of the NSA's budget" Not if the leadership and seniors have anything to do with it. Boehner called Snowden a traitor; he doesn't want to be told what Snowden knows. And Feinstein has defended the programs. Wyden and Udall are in the minority. Everyone else on the Senate Intelligence Committee heard what those two heard, and there were no words of discontent or refor…

Most, if not all, of the SIC members are the politically powerful members of the Senate, who will only be replaced at the polls if they screw up in an unrecoverable way (usually a sex scandal - people remember those). At any rate, because it's a rotating membership, there's no guarantee that anyone with any shred of decency toward privacy will wind up on it.

Re: Secure Ideas will not be presenting at DEF CON this year

#50

Post by wavesounds »

drivingmenuts wrote: post #27
rmrfrmrf wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My major problem with the PRISM debacle was less that the NSA stores and analyzes Internet traffic (although it's perfectly reasonable to be upset about it) and more that they were doing it secretively (mixed with some disgust at how much money, energy, and time must be wasted storing and sifting through unfathomable amounts of data). With that in mind, it's kind of counterintuitive to close the door to conversation…

Ordinary citizens talking to the NSA isn't going to stop them, it's more likely to get those same concerned citizens put on any number of watchlists. At the moment, I have some serious doubt that even Congress can stop the NSA and am quite sure they're not going to bother, aside from making a little noise so it looks like they're defending The Constitution. What will put a stop to this is a Presidential Order, but th…

Ugh this fear mixed with cynicism is so gross!

Ordinary Citizens have always been the driving force behind every major change in this country. Talk to everyone you can about this and for Christ's sake try a little positivity!

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