Too Many Cops Are Told They’re Soldiers Fighting a War. How Did We Get Here? • Hacker News Board

Re: Too Many Cops Are Told They’re Soldiers Fighting a War. How Did We Get Here?

#251

Post by rayiner » Thu, Jul 11, 2013, 4:46 PM UTC

jbooth wrote: post #215

danielweber wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

http://www.npr.org/2009/08/13/111843426/folsom-embodies-cali... In three decades, the California Correctional Peace Officers Association has become one of the most powerful political forces in California. The union has contributed millions of dollars to support "three strikes" and other laws that lengthen sentences and increase parole sanctions. It donated $1 million to Wilson after he backed the three strikes law. I…

Millions????? OMG Give me a break. Unions have a lot of problems but if they were so damned influential, maybe every public sector union except for federal security wouldn't have been losing jobs and hours for the last 10 years.

The states are teetering on the verge of bankruptcy, and it's extremely telling that the public unions are the last things to feel the pain after states have been gutting things like higher education for decades. Many of the recent municipal bankruptcies have been driven by pension obligations for public employees: http://www.foxbusiness.com/government/2013/06/11/california-....

Re: Too Many Cops Are Told They’re Soldiers Fighting a War. How Did We Get Here?

#252

Post by mabhatter » Thu, Jul 11, 2013, 4:57 PM UTC

ihsw wrote: post #90

vondur wrote: post #13

A large number of police officers are former military personnel. It's not surprising that this militarized philosophy is common among police today.

This is an awful generalization, there are many veterans that see this as excessive and abhorrent. They left the Middle East to trade the military environment for quiet(er) civilian life.

Real MILITARY soldiers are subject to the Uniform Code of Military Justice... Which is somewhat stricter and includes a lot of rules that are unconstitutional for crvilians. They also don't get to form unions, they get a chin of command and that's it. They break ORDERS and they get Courtmartialed.

Our militarized police like to call the rest of us "civilians" but they run straight to their Union when any superior calls them out, and they hide behind the same lawyers as the rest of us and ask for favors from the prosecutor and court.

We need to keep the teacher unions and break the police unions up, then subject them to higher standards of conduct, and LOWER standards of defense and evidence... We have allowed them to become a wild pack of dogs and they need caged up, put back on the leash, or put down.

Re: Too Many Cops Are Told They’re Soldiers Fighting a War. How Did We Get Here?

#253

Post by jbooth » Thu, Jul 11, 2013, 6:22 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #251

jbooth wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Millions????? OMG Give me a break. Unions have a lot of problems but if they were so damned influential, maybe every public sector union except for federal security wouldn't have been losing jobs and hours for the last 10 years.

The states are teetering on the verge of bankruptcy, and it's extremely telling that the public unions are the last things to feel the pain after states have been gutting things like higher education for decades. Many of the recent municipal bankruptcies have been driven by pension obligations for public employees: http://www.foxbusiness.com/government/2013/06/11/california-... .

I agree with all of that. What I'm saying is that blaming the current security state on 'unions' is like saying NYC exists because of, I dunno, greenpoint. Not necessary and not even sufficient.

Of course certain unions see an interest in the security state. Other, bigger unions are generally opposed but don't have skin in the game. Whatever. The security state is much bigger than the police and prison guard unions.

Fundamentally, the issue here is political game theory where there's no upside to fixing things and a lot of upside to painting your opponent as 'soft on terror' or 'soft on crime'. So policy only moves in one direction, and that direction is often stupid. Unions' wishes are just drops in the bucket compared to that.

Re: Too Many Cops Are Told They’re Soldiers Fighting a War. How Did We Get Here?

#254

Post by nrivadeneira » Thu, Jul 18, 2013, 4:39 AM UTC

qohen wrote: post #240

nrivadeneira wrote: post #108

One of my best friends is NYPD working in the projects in Brownsville NY, one of the most dangerous cities in NYC. From the stories he tells me, he is fighting a war. Of course, that's not applicable to most other areas, but it's worth noting that when your day-to-day job is dealing with the criminals and scum of the earth, it changes your perspective on life.

Forgive my pedantry, but: dangerous as it is, Brownsville is not a city, but rather a neighborhood of Brooklyn, NY: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brownsville,_Brooklyn

You are correct, but not forgiven. Sometimes I wonder why no mistake may go uncorrected on the internet...