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Trends that will create demand for an Unconditional Basic Income

simulacrum.cc

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Re: Trends that will create demand for an Unconditional Basic Income

#41

Post by nawitus »

waps wrote: post #32
nawitus wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It misses the fact that work is fulfilling for (most) people. Basic income is not against working, it's point is to let people work in all kinds of situations. Old-fashion social security usually makes the tax rate for certain part-time / freelancing work 100% (e.g. $100 increase in pay can reduce benefits $100, therefore the actual marginal tax rate is 100% and most people won't do that work). > But just paying peo…

1) Work is not nearly as fulfilling as doing nothing for most people. I have no trouble admitting this to myself. And while I'd probably still do something, I'd no longer see any need to make any compromises to work together with anybody else. That would be satisfying. It would also be an economically negative proposition, but I'd learn a lot. Or at least, I'd feel I do. 2) About the "Nordic countries". WTF ? Have yo…

>2) About the "Nordic countries". WTF ? Have you looked at the crime stats for Malmo ?

Yeah, well immigration can create major problems with crime.

>They also have very few homeless. Of course, homelessness is a death penalty there, merely because of the weather. That means that in Nordic countries everybody has a house, and not made from wood, double glazing, brick, generally solid and everybody's inside before the sun is down. Breaking and entering after dark is insane.

Yeah, because we have a good social security and everyone can get an apartment.

Re: Trends that will create demand for an Unconditional Basic Income

#42

Post by BWStearns »

brador wrote: post #19

With basic income, wouldn't the economy adapt to the fresh money supply and rents and other costs raise to account for it? It would effectivly be additional currency inflation by a different name?

There would likely be inflation. However I would bet that it would not be to the point where the BI amount of money resulted in 0 value. Also another thing to consider is the effect it would have on salaries: they would rise (and not just in an inflationary way). Since now you have people grabbing any job they can even at shitty salaries (HN crowd likely largely excluded) companies would actually have to "compete" against the BI since the pressure to take an underpaid job is relieved.

Not entirely sure the system would work, but it seems more viable than the current efforts ("Let's do X again, but this time we'll call it Y!"). Great article.

Re: Trends that will create demand for an Unconditional Basic Income

#45

Post by Cowen »

enko wrote: post #11
btilly wrote: post #5

I've got a twist on this basic idea. Fund basic income with a large tax on various CO2 producing activities. With the idea that - on average - people can pay this tax out of the basic income received from it. And people will have direct incentives to find ways to reduce CO2 consumption. Then get rid of silly specific legislation that tries to achieve the same goal in less successful ways. Thus fuel efficiency, Califo…

See Australian politics for clues on why that probably won't be an attractive option for politicians where you are. We implemented a carbon tax. While not perfect, it's a pretty decent stab IMO, yet is very easy to demonise and as such is wildly unpopular with hoi polloi. It's a real pity that many good legislative ideas seem to be susceptible to simplistic populist attack if you yell loud enough.

> It's a real pity that many good legislative ideas seem to be susceptible to simplistic populist attack if you yell loud enough.

I'm having trouble finding it now (so please take it with a grain of salt), but I remember once reading a quote by a southern US politician in the 1950s that went something like: "I used to talk about paving roads and better schools and no one listened. Then I started pounding tables about [black people] and suddenly everyone supported me."

Similarly, Joe McCarthy (of McCarthyism fame) was a pretty unremarkable Senator for his first three years in office. Then one day, he claimed he had a list of known Communists working in the State department, and the next day he was a household name.

Populism has always been a really easy way for politicians to drum up fervent support. A shame that it rarely ever solves any problems.

Re: Trends that will create demand for an Unconditional Basic Income

#47

Post by king_jester »

joshuaellinger wrote: post #2

It misses the fact that work is fulfilling for (most) people. I've heard talk of the government being the employer of last resort, which has its own problems. But just paying people to breath has problems as well.

> It misses the fact that work is fulfilling for (most) people.

There are all kinds of work that people undertake today that are not paid for or economically rewarded. Providing a basic income allows those people to continue to do that work or explore new kinds of work that aren't paid for at this time.

Re: Trends that will create demand for an Unconditional Basic Income

#49

Post by BWStearns »

khill wrote: post #39

Wouldn't the basic income value need to vary across regions? For example, the notion that: "Every single adult member receives a weekly payment from the state, which is enough to live comfortably on" would mean a different value in San Francisco than in Grover, NC. If the government adjusted the basic income to account for regional cost-of-living, I imagine it would be popular to maintain a fake residency in an expen…

>> If the government adjusted the basic income to account for regional cost-of-living, I imagine it would be popular to maintain a fake residency in an expensive area while actually living somewhere cheaper.

Good hack.

>> some areas become rich elite enclaves while other areas become basic income ghettos.

This is basically the direction we're already headed in already.

Re: Trends that will create demand for an Unconditional Basic Income

#50

Post by ezxs »

Russians tried it with USSR. Every time new technology is introduced everyone gets scared that jobs go away. Over time the level of service and innovation requirements go up providing more jobs for those that adapt. Such as life. Don't make the world what its not. It most likely won't work. :-)
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