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Too Many Cops Are Told They’re Soldiers Fighting a War. How Did We Get Here?

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Re: Too Many Cops Are Told They’re Soldiers Fighting a War. How Did We Get Here?

#141

Post by bayesianhorse »

nostromo wrote: post #126
mathattack wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Crime is at an all-time low yet spending on police is near an all-time high." Isn't this cause and effect? Crime is lower because we are hiring more policemen. That is certainly one conclusion from Freakonomics. This is just a digression, because I do think the "Cops as Warriors" model is very scary, as "collateral damage" becomes acceptable in a war.

I attempted to address that in my comment. Check out, Steven Pinker's "The Better Angels of Our Nature" which shows that violent crime is down globally, not just in the US. Also, Levitt did say increased policing decreased crime, but only caused around 5% of the decline ( http://pricetheory.uchicago.edu/levitt/Papers/LevittUndersta... p. 184)

I found that talk riveting. I tried to tell that to people in real life, but stopped that after a couple of tries... Noone really believes that...

Re: Too Many Cops Are Told They’re Soldiers Fighting a War. How Did We Get Here?

#142

Post by arethuza »

rayiner wrote: post #105
calibraxis wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why tech workers need unions. When Facebook does something nasty, they can blame the unions; the billionaires and millionaires were merely cowering behind their desks. We shouldn't contort ourselves to avoid the simplest answer: the state is getting what it paid for. The US incarcerates its population more than any known state on earth. That isn't unions' fault — other countries with more powerful unions don'…

> That isn't unions' fault It is, in fact, the unions' fault. The prison unions and police unions are huge proponents of the drug war, longer sentences, etc. It isn't just there fault, of course, America's general Puritan streak helps, but the public unions have really capitalized on that. > other countries with more powerful unions don't jail themselves like this. What happens in other countries isn't a good model f…

"Sub-segments of the population don't viscerally hate each other in Frankfurt or London the way they do in L.A. or Detroit."

Belfast still has road barriers that are raised at night blocking roads between the Shankill Road and Falls Road areas - not to mention huge walls:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_lines

Edit: To be fair, I agree with your point, but there are some very noticeable dividing lines in European cities.

[NB. This is not intended as a criticism of Belfast, please go and visit - we went recently and had a great few days and I want to go back.]

Re: Too Many Cops Are Told They’re Soldiers Fighting a War. How Did We Get Here?

#143

Post by davidw »

Arjuna wrote: post #129
nostromo wrote: post #80

Crime is at an all-time low yet spending on police is near an all-time high. (Those factors could have a causal relationship, but I doubt it's the primary cause based on reading "The Better Angels of Our Nature".) http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/spending_chart_1950_2010... Having big budgets but less crime means these swollen budgets end up being wasted on a lot of "fun" things like military gear. (Did you know t…

"Today in the US, if you call 911 about an emergency medical condition, they will often send a fire engine along with an ambulance [...]" This is SOP (Standard Operating Procedure). 1. Imagine a scenario where an ambulance arrives as a first responder, and the EMTs [1] find that they cannot gain access to the emergency scene, because the home or other structure is locked or otherwise blocked. In this case, a firetruc…

Good points.

Interesting anecdotal data: here in Italy you have to call the fire department to get a fire truck out, whereas they're part of the standard package described above in the US. Fires aren't that common here because of construction materials, so while you see plenty of ambulances and police cars whizzing around, fire trucks are a far rarer sight than in the US.

Re: Too Many Cops Are Told They’re Soldiers Fighting a War. How Did We Get Here?

#144

Post by buuda »

king_jester wrote: post #35
Shivetya wrote: post #9

Simple, do you see the limits to preventive actions they can take in most cities? Have you read how "rights" activist are going to strip NYC cops from doing just that which has resulted in an incredible drop in murders and similar crimes? We got there because we stopped police from policing and instead forced them to respond to situations left to build until they explode. We got there by telling them, no you can't lo…

> Have you read how "rights" activist are going to strip NYC cops from doing just that which has resulted in an incredible drop in murders and similar crimes? You are no doubt referring to stop and frisk. I'm so tired of having to say this to folks, but the violent crime rate in NYC has been dropping since before stop and frisk was a policy. In fact, there is no conclusive evidence or study that gives a direct causat…

There is very good evidence that the reduction in crime is related to the levels of lead in blood. The correlation between crime and lead levels is found on the international, national, state, city and even block by block level.

Stop and frisk can be legally done, but the way the NYPD implements it is clearly discriminatory. There is no better way to create a criminal than to treat someone like one from adolescence.

http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2013/01/lead-crime-li...

Re: Too Many Cops Are Told They’re Soldiers Fighting a War. How Did We Get Here?

#145

Post by [deleted] »

ljf wrote: post #135
blhack wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's really misleading. There is a base in Grand Forks, ND that houses several CBP (Customs and Border Patrol) Predator Drones, and they work with local law enforcement when asked to. So, more than likely, the drone is going to be flying home here anyway, and made a pass over some property. The facility where these things are flown from isn't some top secret bunker or anything, it's an office building on the air fo…

2k for a cow? Try 60 dollars... http://www.cattlenetwork.com/cattle-resources/cow-calf/price...

[deleted]

Re: Too Many Cops Are Told They’re Soldiers Fighting a War. How Did We Get Here?

#146

Post by tptacek »

enko wrote: post #75

You can't make this shit up. > Police in North Dakota borrowed a $154 million MQ-9 Predator B drone from the Department of Homeland Security to arrest a family of anti-government separatists who refused to return six cows that wandered onto their farm.

The MQ-9 doesn't cost $154MM; more like 1/10th of that, list.

Re: Too Many Cops Are Told They’re Soldiers Fighting a War. How Did We Get Here?

#147

Post by blhack »

ljf wrote: post #135
blhack wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's really misleading. There is a base in Grand Forks, ND that houses several CBP (Customs and Border Patrol) Predator Drones, and they work with local law enforcement when asked to. So, more than likely, the drone is going to be flying home here anyway, and made a pass over some property. The facility where these things are flown from isn't some top secret bunker or anything, it's an office building on the air fo…

2k for a cow? Try 60 dollars... http://www.cattlenetwork.com/cattle-resources/cow-calf/price...

I'm looking around the internet, and seeing prices all over the place actually. $60 is the lowest I've seen, NASDAQ.com says $120, some farming websites are saying $1000-$2000, etc.

Re: Too Many Cops Are Told They’re Soldiers Fighting a War. How Did We Get Here?

#148

Post by vacri »

mitchty wrote: post #59
rayiner wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The US police is VERY militarized in Urban areas. U.S. urban areas are very militarized. London, a city of 8 million people, had 100 murders last year. Over the last 20 years, the number broke 200 only once, in 2003. Chicago, a city of only 2.7 million people, had 532 last year. And this is way down from the peak. Murders in U.S. cities peaked in the early 1990's. L.A. county had 2,589 murders at its peak in 1993.…

This is true but a lot of these murders are gang related so it isn't quite a great comparison not? I know the topics of guns in america is a hot topic in general but even for the usa the general trend is downward.

I've never understood the argument that somehow gang crime isn't crime that should make it to the statistics books.

Re: Too Many Cops Are Told They’re Soldiers Fighting a War. How Did We Get Here?

#149

Post by dtparr »

ljf wrote: post #135
blhack wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's really misleading. There is a base in Grand Forks, ND that houses several CBP (Customs and Border Patrol) Predator Drones, and they work with local law enforcement when asked to. So, more than likely, the drone is going to be flying home here anyway, and made a pass over some property. The facility where these things are flown from isn't some top secret bunker or anything, it's an office building on the air fo…

2k for a cow? Try 60 dollars... http://www.cattlenetwork.com/cattle-resources/cow-calf/price...

Cattle prices are listed in $/cwt ($ per 100 pounds), and most prices you find like this are the price when you want to slaughter the animal. If you're looking for something for breeding, the prices can be substantially higher.

Re: Too Many Cops Are Told They’re Soldiers Fighting a War. How Did We Get Here?

#150

Post by [deleted] »

Caskman wrote: post #63

"There's a reason you separate military and the police. One fights the enemies of the state, the other serves and protects the people. When the military becomes both, then the enemies of the state tend to become the people" -Commander William Adama, Battlestar Galactica

[deleted]
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