Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The NSA slide you haven’t seen

washingtonpost.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 202 posts

Re: The NSA slide you haven’t seen

#91

Post by rsingel »

lisper wrote: post #88
rsingel wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, a judge does not see an individual request in a 702 order. This is the entire point of the 702 and PRISM -- NSA analysts no longer have to fill out paperwork to get data from Google/Facebook/Etc, so long as they are 51% sure the target is a foreigner. There is one court order per company per year. After that, it's "direct access" - e.g. analyst sends request directly to the company.

First I've heard of this 51% thing. If it's true (and I don't doubt it) then the situation is even worse than I thought. Do you have a reference?

Sure, it's from the Washington Post's reporting: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/politics/prism-...

Search for 51.

Re: The NSA slide you haven’t seen

#92

Post by [deleted] »

jellicle wrote: post #44
btipling wrote: post #2

> "collection directly from the servers" So either Snowden has incorrect slides, the slides are falsified, or everyone has been lying. Actual evidence of direct access would be better than these slides. I would like someone from Google, Facebook, et al to testify under oath that there is no direct access. Or maybe even the NSA, but we know they share inaccuracies under oath, so maybe that isn't worth so much.

They're getting the info directly from Google et al., but they don't have root on Google's servers. Google is required by law (CALEA, the Communications Assistance for Law Enforcement Act) to provide the ability for law enforcement to get information from them. This includes - required by law - the ability both to get stored data and to make real-time intercepts of new communications. Google is paid a fee to provide…

[deleted]

Re: The NSA slide you haven’t seen

#93

Post by H3g3m0n »

btipling wrote: post #2

> "collection directly from the servers" So either Snowden has incorrect slides, the slides are falsified, or everyone has been lying. Actual evidence of direct access would be better than these slides. I would like someone from Google, Facebook, et al to testify under oath that there is no direct access. Or maybe even the NSA, but we know they share inaccuracies under oath, so maybe that isn't worth so much.

From my limited understanding, the slides are unlikely to be 'incorrect' as Snowden worked there so he would know what was actually going on.

It's possible Snowden is making the whole thing up but the government haven't denied anything is going on. It should also be possible for at least some of Snowdens claims to be verified. For example he has claimed that the government was hacking Universities it might be possible to see evidence of that. Or he claimed people have been wiretapped, maybe he knows some of the conversations.

It's possible the government won't deny due to a policy of denial and are sticking to it despite the huge PR issues. Or maybe they want people to think they are watching. Or maybe the people in positions to deny stuff want the current government to look bad.

Maybe the government will deny later and it's taken a while due to bureaucracy. But by that time it will be to late since if there was anything they will have had time to clean house.

Only Google have so for made a post saying the whole thing is fake.

Re: The NSA slide you haven’t seen

#94

Post by winthrowe »

jeltz wrote: post #85
laxatives wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Avoiding Microsoft, Google, and Apple doesn't leave many smart phone options either.

There is always the Blackberry.

If they've publicly provided similar capabilities to the Indian government, it seems naive to think that list isn't longer.

http://gadgets.ndtv.com/telecom/news/government-to-take-over...

Re: The NSA slide you haven’t seen

#95

Post by hedonist »

kimlelly wrote: post #28

I'll say it again, because I was immediately downvoted into invisibility: You CAN NOT continue to use products and services by NSA companies like Microsoft - Yahoo - Google - Facebook - PalTalk - AOL - Skype - YouTube - or Apple and THEN turn around and BITCH AND CRY ABOUT LOSING YOUR RIGHTS AND PRIVACY. This is completely INSANE, you NEED TO WAKE UP! EDIT: Yeah, let the censuring begin again. You know what? When I l…

Can you USE MORE CAPITAL LETTERS, please? That would MAKE YOUR POINT MUCH MORE CREDIBLE, you know.

Re: The NSA slide you haven’t seen

#96

Post by mindcrime »

SpikeGronim wrote: post #64
mindcrime wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In addition to The Shadow Factory he also wrote The Puzzle Palace and Body of Secrets . I'm not sure how much material is shared between the three books, or if they're meant to be read in any certain order, but I'm plowing through The Puzzle Palace now. In any case, it's wildly interesting stuff.

I've read all of those books. They cover the NSA chronologically, so there isn't much overlap. I would recommend all of them. (edited: typo)

OK, good, glad to hear that. I had sort of assumed that that was the case, but wasn't sure. It's a lot of material to slog through, but I find this stuff fascinating for some reason.

Re: The NSA slide you haven’t seen

#97

Post by [deleted] »

jrn wrote: post #83
eddieroger wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So instead of repeating what was made invisible, make it a constructive comment. Instead of carrying a Windows Phone, Android or iPhone, which smartphone should I carry? How can I start getting my friends off Facebook so I can close my account without losing those connections? I'm not trying to make the argument to stay, but without viable alternatives, people won't leave.

blackberry for phones, not sure about facebook alternatives. edit: also bbm is going cross platform soon, so that may give an encrypted social network alternative, haven't used it though. also I think they gave india/dubai a backdoor a couple years ago? so who's to say, whether they would be compelled to cough up to the nsa as well.

[deleted]

Re: The NSA slide you haven’t seen

#98

Post by zmb_ »

sneak wrote: post #12
danso wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was just about to post this, the only difference is that two of the secret program names are unredacted in the Wapo version.

As the article points out, the map is different in both as well. One shows CONUS, the other, the whole Earth.

It's the same picture, but the Guardian one is compressed horizontally to fit, the Post one is not. It's obvious that whoever made that slide used a larger image but positioned it so that only part of it was shown. Post opened it with PowerPoint and it rendered correctly while Guardian opened it with OpenOffice which mangled it (look at the arrows and circles too). Most likely it's the Guardian that redacted the name of the two programs for whatever reason (they said they are curating the leaks to not cause unnecessary damage and not just dumping everything).

Re: The NSA slide you haven’t seen

#99

Post by winthrowe »

jrn wrote: post #83
eddieroger wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So instead of repeating what was made invisible, make it a constructive comment. Instead of carrying a Windows Phone, Android or iPhone, which smartphone should I carry? How can I start getting my friends off Facebook so I can close my account without losing those connections? I'm not trying to make the argument to stay, but without viable alternatives, people won't leave.

blackberry for phones, not sure about facebook alternatives. edit: also bbm is going cross platform soon, so that may give an encrypted social network alternative, haven't used it though. also I think they gave india/dubai a backdoor a couple years ago? so who's to say, whether they would be compelled to cough up to the nsa as well.

They did give India a backdoor, and it seems naive to think that no one else has it.
Post reply on HN