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The NSA slide you haven’t seen

washingtonpost.com

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Re: The NSA slide you haven’t seen

#51

Post by laxatives »

brandonbloom wrote: post #37
kimlelly wrote: post #28

I'll say it again, because I was immediately downvoted into invisibility: You CAN NOT continue to use products and services by NSA companies like Microsoft - Yahoo - Google - Facebook - PalTalk - AOL - Skype - YouTube - or Apple and THEN turn around and BITCH AND CRY ABOUT LOSING YOUR RIGHTS AND PRIVACY. This is completely INSANE, you NEED TO WAKE UP! EDIT: Yeah, let the censuring begin again. You know what? When I l…

You're being down voted because your comment is entirely non-constructive. 1) Calling people insane won't win you any favors. 2) "WAKE UP" is an entirely useless platitude. 3) Simply not using "NSA companies" is completely impractical. Not everyone can afford to be a recluse eccentric by ignoring the largest software providers on the planet. Never mind the fact that switching to an alternative in mass would simply pr…

Avoiding Microsoft, Google, and Apple doesn't leave many smart phone options either.

Re: The NSA slide you haven’t seen

#52

Post by kimlelly »

lambda wrote: post #41
kimlelly wrote: post #28

I'll say it again, because I was immediately downvoted into invisibility: You CAN NOT continue to use products and services by NSA companies like Microsoft - Yahoo - Google - Facebook - PalTalk - AOL - Skype - YouTube - or Apple and THEN turn around and BITCH AND CRY ABOUT LOSING YOUR RIGHTS AND PRIVACY. This is completely INSANE, you NEED TO WAKE UP! EDIT: Yeah, let the censuring begin again. You know what? When I l…

You were downvoted into invisibility because this type of discourse is not appropriate for Hacker News. Please, no shouting. No vague pronouncements to "wake up". We try to have a reasoned, intelligent discourse here. There are many services provided by companies which may collaborate with the NSA or law enforcement which are pretty much unavoidable in modern society; the telephone network, the internet, and so on. T…

> Rather, we should be discussing realistic solutions.

Everything has already been discussed. Multiple times over. And when you repeat yourself, you get downvoted.

Re: The NSA slide you haven’t seen

#53

Post by brown9-2 »

btipling wrote: post #2

> "collection directly from the servers" So either Snowden has incorrect slides, the slides are falsified, or everyone has been lying. Actual evidence of direct access would be better than these slides. I would like someone from Google, Facebook, et al to testify under oath that there is no direct access. Or maybe even the NSA, but we know they share inaccuracies under oath, so maybe that isn't worth so much.

The other option is that the slides use ambiguous language.

Re: The NSA slide you haven’t seen

#54

Post by enko »

samsnelling wrote: post #21
runjake wrote: post #18

Once again, I suggest everyone interested read James Bamford's book Shadow Factory. All these revelations regarding call metadata, PRISM collection (albeit under a different codename at the time), modern fiber taps, and even more are covered. You'll learn about how they shave fiber optic cables in order to intercept traffic and not be detected. You'll find out about the various facilities already reported, along with…

Thanks for this! I've been looking for more to read (I just went back and re-read 1984). ... I thought one of the points of Fiber was that you couldn't tap in without disturbing the optical signal? Did I just make that up in my head?

> you couldn't tap in without disturbing the optical signal

Well of course you can't. If you're going to split it off to read it, then you're "disturbing" it by definition.

Whether or not you can do such that it's not noticeable to the proper end parties, of course, is a different story.

Re: The NSA slide you haven’t seen

#55

Post by indiefan »

jellicle wrote: post #44
btipling wrote: post #2

> "collection directly from the servers" So either Snowden has incorrect slides, the slides are falsified, or everyone has been lying. Actual evidence of direct access would be better than these slides. I would like someone from Google, Facebook, et al to testify under oath that there is no direct access. Or maybe even the NSA, but we know they share inaccuracies under oath, so maybe that isn't worth so much.

They're getting the info directly from Google et al., but they don't have root on Google's servers. Google is required by law (CALEA, the Communications Assistance for Law Enforcement Act) to provide the ability for law enforcement to get information from them. This includes - required by law - the ability both to get stored data and to make real-time intercepts of new communications. Google is paid a fee to provide…

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you left out the step where a judge reviews the request to make sure it's not overly broad or based on flimsy reasoning.

Aside from that I'd say it's a very clear, and it's sad that there seems to be a pervasive inference that these companies are something something beyond what our elected law makers have forced them to do. Why isn't more angst directed at the politicians responsible for this?

Re: The NSA slide you haven’t seen

#57

Post by yk »

United857 wrote: post #30

Any speculation as to what the redaction next to "Processing" in the "PRISM Collection Data Flow" slide is?

It is next to "Protocol Exploitation," so it could be anything from "Data" to "Public Key."

What I am wondering at the moment is the "DNI" on the same slide, is this direct neural interface? /tinfoil

Re: The NSA slide you haven’t seen

#58

Post by Locke1689 »

eitland wrote: post #34
samsnelling wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for this! I've been looking for more to read (I just went back and re-read 1984). ... I thought one of the points of Fiber was that you couldn't tap in without disturbing the optical signal? Did I just make that up in my head?

No, you have not made it up in your head. It has been widely accepted as a fact but I guess if it was originally true there must have been a few "givens'.

Who said this? It seems obviously false. All you would have to do is insert a detector and another emitter that simply replays everything the detector reads.

Re: The NSA slide you haven’t seen

#59

Post by [deleted] »

kimlelly wrote: post #52
lambda wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You were downvoted into invisibility because this type of discourse is not appropriate for Hacker News. Please, no shouting. No vague pronouncements to "wake up". We try to have a reasoned, intelligent discourse here. There are many services provided by companies which may collaborate with the NSA or law enforcement which are pretty much unavoidable in modern society; the telephone network, the internet, and so on. T…

> Rather, we should be discussing realistic solutions. Everything has already been discussed. Multiple times over. And when you repeat yourself, you get downvoted.

[deleted]

Re: The NSA slide you haven’t seen

#60

Post by tommis »

kimlelly wrote: post #28

I'll say it again, because I was immediately downvoted into invisibility: You CAN NOT continue to use products and services by NSA companies like Microsoft - Yahoo - Google - Facebook - PalTalk - AOL - Skype - YouTube - or Apple and THEN turn around and BITCH AND CRY ABOUT LOSING YOUR RIGHTS AND PRIVACY. This is completely INSANE, you NEED TO WAKE UP! EDIT: Yeah, let the censuring begin again. You know what? When I l…

With "Upstream" mentioned in the slide, it doesn't matter what company you use. As long as your data goes trough a cable that's monitored, everything is owned.
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