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The NSA slide you haven’t seen

washingtonpost.com

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Re: The NSA slide you haven’t seen

#31

Post by mindcrime »

runjake wrote: post #18

Once again, I suggest everyone interested read James Bamford's book Shadow Factory. All these revelations regarding call metadata, PRISM collection (albeit under a different codename at the time), modern fiber taps, and even more are covered. You'll learn about how they shave fiber optic cables in order to intercept traffic and not be detected. You'll find out about the various facilities already reported, along with…

In addition to The Shadow Factory he also wrote The Puzzle Palace and Body of Secrets. I'm not sure how much material is shared between the three books, or if they're meant to be read in any certain order, but I'm plowing through The Puzzle Palace now.

In any case, it's wildly interesting stuff.

Re: The NSA slide you haven’t seen

#32

Post by stordoff »

oscilloscope wrote: post #6

It may have been published at the Post for the first time, but Guardian released this over a month ago. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/08/nsa-prism-server...

I'm fairly sure the differences can largely be put down to the Guardian using OpenOffice[1]. The differences look more like conversion errors, rather than any deliberate change (other than redaction).

* Red PRISM background should probably be rendered as transparent (as in the WaPo version) * Typesetting on the Guardian version looks incorrect * Guardian map looks to be misaligned/scaled, rather than changed (notice that the company logos are in America on the WaPo version, and the blue circles overlap fibre connections, but are not on the Guardian version.

[1] http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2009/aug/07/local-gover...

Re: The NSA slide you haven’t seen

#33

Post by yk »

swamp40 wrote: post #20
sneak wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As the article points out, the map is different in both as well. One shows CONUS, the other, the whole Earth.

These come from the NSA originally - so it's probably SOP to make slight changes to every page of every document each time it is released to someone, so that they can track the exact source and path of any leaks.

Or someone just decided that a US map would look better for the other briefing.

Re: The NSA slide you haven’t seen

#34

Post by eitland »

samsnelling wrote: post #21
runjake wrote: post #18

Once again, I suggest everyone interested read James Bamford's book Shadow Factory. All these revelations regarding call metadata, PRISM collection (albeit under a different codename at the time), modern fiber taps, and even more are covered. You'll learn about how they shave fiber optic cables in order to intercept traffic and not be detected. You'll find out about the various facilities already reported, along with…

Thanks for this! I've been looking for more to read (I just went back and re-read 1984). ... I thought one of the points of Fiber was that you couldn't tap in without disturbing the optical signal? Did I just make that up in my head?

No, you have not made it up in your head. It has been widely accepted as a fact but I guess if it was originally true there must have been a few "givens'.

Re: The NSA slide you haven’t seen

#35

Post by stordoff »

swamp40 wrote: post #20
sneak wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As the article points out, the map is different in both as well. One shows CONUS, the other, the whole Earth.

These come from the NSA originally - so it's probably SOP to make slight changes to every page of every document each time it is released to someone, so that they can track the exact source and path of any leaks.

Wouldn't that suggest two leaks of the same document (one to WaPo, one to the Guardian)? I don't believe that is the case here.

Re: The NSA slide you haven’t seen

#36

Post by hayksaakian »

kimlelly wrote: post #28

I'll say it again, because I was immediately downvoted into invisibility: You CAN NOT continue to use products and services by NSA companies like Microsoft - Yahoo - Google - Facebook - PalTalk - AOL - Skype - YouTube - or Apple and THEN turn around and BITCH AND CRY ABOUT LOSING YOUR RIGHTS AND PRIVACY. This is completely INSANE, you NEED TO WAKE UP! EDIT: Yeah, let the censuring begin again. You know what? When I l…

There is a difference between opting out of privacy (eg Facebook) and being guaranteed privacy -- which is unknowingly violated (NSA)

Re: The NSA slide you haven’t seen

#37

Post by brandonbloom »

kimlelly wrote: post #28

I'll say it again, because I was immediately downvoted into invisibility: You CAN NOT continue to use products and services by NSA companies like Microsoft - Yahoo - Google - Facebook - PalTalk - AOL - Skype - YouTube - or Apple and THEN turn around and BITCH AND CRY ABOUT LOSING YOUR RIGHTS AND PRIVACY. This is completely INSANE, you NEED TO WAKE UP! EDIT: Yeah, let the censuring begin again. You know what? When I l…

You're being down voted because your comment is entirely non-constructive.

1) Calling people insane won't win you any favors.

2) "WAKE UP" is an entirely useless platitude.

3) Simply not using "NSA companies" is completely impractical. Not everyone can afford to be a recluse eccentric by ignoring the largest software providers on the planet. Never mind the fact that switching to an alternative in mass would simply produce a new "NSA company". These companies aren't at fault, our government is.

Do you have any concrete proposals? Do you have anything new to share? It doesn't seem that you do.

Re: The NSA slide you haven’t seen

#38

Post by randomnick852 »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #22
sneak wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The codenames of some of the collection codenames were redacted: FAIRVIEW and BLARNEY were visible, STORMBREW and OAKSTAR were not. What's really quite interesting is that they're typeset differently on the redacted/unredacted slides. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/politics/prism-... http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/20... EDIT: Also, as the WaPo article points out, the map is di…

Exactly, one or both of these slides has been edited. I doubt that someone went back to the NSA to get "the latest version" that makes me wonder who did the editing and what was their motivation? Did the guardian change the map to make it more relevant to the "global nature" of their coverage? Did someone change it for WaPo to make it seem more credible? And the redacting part, who redacted it and why? Neither slide…

I would guess WaPo edited the map. For the Guardian's version of slide it seems easy to guess that those are the names of secret programs use to tap fiber-optic cables in certain regions. NSA wanted 2 names of those programs to remain secret. (i have some theory why..). WaPo published the names but edited the map not to give precise locations of those programs. Just my theory ofc.

Re: The NSA slide you haven’t seen

#39

Post by [deleted] »

kimlelly wrote: post #28

I'll say it again, because I was immediately downvoted into invisibility: You CAN NOT continue to use products and services by NSA companies like Microsoft - Yahoo - Google - Facebook - PalTalk - AOL - Skype - YouTube - or Apple and THEN turn around and BITCH AND CRY ABOUT LOSING YOUR RIGHTS AND PRIVACY. This is completely INSANE, you NEED TO WAKE UP! EDIT: Yeah, let the censuring begin again. You know what? When I l…

[deleted]

Re: The NSA slide you haven’t seen

#40

Post by brown9-2 »

kimlelly wrote: post #28

I'll say it again, because I was immediately downvoted into invisibility: You CAN NOT continue to use products and services by NSA companies like Microsoft - Yahoo - Google - Facebook - PalTalk - AOL - Skype - YouTube - or Apple and THEN turn around and BITCH AND CRY ABOUT LOSING YOUR RIGHTS AND PRIVACY. This is completely INSANE, you NEED TO WAKE UP! EDIT: Yeah, let the censuring begin again. You know what? When I l…

I don't think this has much to do with the products you use, but rather the jurisdictions you reside in and the laws passed there.

No one should "bitch and cry about losing your rights and privacy" - they should be lobbying their representatives to change laws.

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