Too Many Cops Are Told They’re Soldiers Fighting a War. How Did We Get Here? • Hacker News Board

Re: Too Many Cops Are Told They’re Soldiers Fighting a War. How Did We Get Here?

#51

Post by rayiner » Wed, Jul 10, 2013, 5:21 PM UTC

UnoriginalGuy wrote: post #42

takluyver wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If a policeman has access to body armor and machine guns to serve a warrant on some guy in a house, he will take them along. Interestingly, in the UK, where regular policemen don't carry guns, most policemen apparently don't want to have firearms. Obviously this is a rather different culture, and there's a difference between a collective matter (should we all be armed?) and an individual matter (should I be armed t…

I think part of the reason for UK police not wanting guns is primarily what the UK police see as their mission: It is community policing, where UK police try to work within and with the permission of the community because they feel they're most effective that way (also called "policing by consent"). http://www.civitas.org.uk/pubs/policeNine.php Police carrying guns makes them "scary" to the general public, and as suc…

> The US police is VERY militarized in Urban areas.

U.S. urban areas are very militarized. London, a city of 8 million people, had 100 murders last year. Over the last 20 years, the number broke 200 only once, in 2003. Chicago, a city of only 2.7 million people, had 532 last year. And this is way down from the peak. Murders in U.S. cities peaked in the early 1990's. L.A. county had 2,589 murders at its peak in 1993. New York peaked at 2,245 murders in 1990.

Re: Too Many Cops Are Told They’re Soldiers Fighting a War. How Did We Get Here?

#52

Post by dclowd9901 » Wed, Jul 10, 2013, 5:22 PM UTC

cousin_it wrote: post #20

During the 2011 protests in Russia, some people suggested that the government benefits from bad relations between the public and the police, because the government is afraid that the police will side with the public during mass protests. Though I guess that problem is much less severe in the US.

Given how the situation is playing out in Egypt, I'd say this assessment is spot-on.

Re: Too Many Cops Are Told They’re Soldiers Fighting a War. How Did We Get Here?

#53

Post by rayiner » Wed, Jul 10, 2013, 5:24 PM UTC

princess3000 wrote: post #48

rayiner wrote: post #47

How did we get here? When gangs and organized crime turned the cities into war zones in the 1970's and 1980's.

Actually the militarization of the police force comes from a coordinated effort to repurpose military hardware for domestic police use. [1] Kind of funny that the gear used to fight one terrible war overseas is sent back to our own country and used to fight another terrible war domestically, huh? [1] http://www.businessinsider.com/program-1033-military-equipme...

That's a relatively recent phenomenon that comes at the tail end of something that has been happening for many decades now.

Re: Too Many Cops Are Told They’re Soldiers Fighting a War. How Did We Get Here?

#54

Post by makerops » Wed, Jul 10, 2013, 5:26 PM UTC

The job of the US' domestic police force is to serve and protect; the job of the military is to defend the nation against foreign enemies. When police forces become militaristic, the citizens become the foreign enemy.

Re: Too Many Cops Are Told They’re Soldiers Fighting a War. How Did We Get Here?

#55

Post by chc » Wed, Jul 10, 2013, 5:30 PM UTC

dobbsbob wrote: post #21

Google the story about 7 cops in VA that went after a 17yr old girl because she was carrying non alcoholic fruit soda the cops thought were wine coolers. They handled this by breaking through her car windows guns drawn like they were seals going after bin laden lol.

Actually, it was a 20-year-old college student with a 12-pack of water, and they failed to break her windows because she drove away when the crowd of large men ran up and started beating on her car, and then they charged her with assault.

Re: Too Many Cops Are Told They’re Soldiers Fighting a War. How Did We Get Here?

#56

Post by parfe » Wed, Jul 10, 2013, 5:31 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #47

How did we get here? When gangs and organized crime turned the cities into war zones in the 1970's and 1980's.

The existence of drug organizations is a capitalist response to government intervention in the market. Prohibition is the source of the black drugs market as well as the reason the police militarized themselves.

Re: Too Many Cops Are Told They’re Soldiers Fighting a War. How Did We Get Here?

#57

Post by kens » Wed, Jul 10, 2013, 5:41 PM UTC

xroche wrote: post #3

schrodingersCat wrote: post #2

I don't know how we got here, but you must admit that SWAT teams in mine-resistant personnel carriers sure look spiffy. If your police force isn't ready for battle, the terrorists win

You’re More Likely to be Killed by a Toddler than a Terrorist. ( http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2013/06/youre-more-likely-to-... )

I was wondering how toddlers kill people, so I went to the original source, which describes 5 fatal shootings. All but one were by preschoolers, not toddlers, which ruins the alliteration. And the article cherry-picks data from 2013; terrorism deaths are considerably higher if you include other years (even excluding 2001). I'd classify this as a catchy link title, not an accurate statement.

Re: Too Many Cops Are Told They’re Soldiers Fighting a War. How Did We Get Here?

#58

Post by rhizome » Wed, Jul 10, 2013, 5:43 PM UTC

Spooky23 wrote: post #27

The SWAT issue is a different issue IMO, more related to politicians wanting to "do something" at the Federal and State levels. "Doing something" translates to "allocate funding". That money can pay for more cops/overtime, or stuff. Or it may be earmarked by a congressman whose donor makes light tanks to only buy tanks. The us vs. them stuff is related to the state of affairs in high-crime communities. Cops can't rel…

It's more likely that SWAT teams are being used to hide the fact that violent crime is at the lowest levels in decades. Police use terrorism to justify keeping officers on the force when they should be getting laid off. It's makework.

Re: Too Many Cops Are Told They’re Soldiers Fighting a War. How Did We Get Here?

#59

Post by mitchty » Wed, Jul 10, 2013, 5:48 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #51

UnoriginalGuy wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think part of the reason for UK police not wanting guns is primarily what the UK police see as their mission: It is community policing, where UK police try to work within and with the permission of the community because they feel they're most effective that way (also called "policing by consent"). http://www.civitas.org.uk/pubs/policeNine.php Police carrying guns makes them "scary" to the general public, and as suc…

> The US police is VERY militarized in Urban areas. U.S. urban areas are very militarized. London, a city of 8 million people, had 100 murders last year. Over the last 20 years, the number broke 200 only once, in 2003. Chicago, a city of only 2.7 million people, had 532 last year. And this is way down from the peak. Murders in U.S. cities peaked in the early 1990's. L.A. county had 2,589 murders at its peak in 1993.…

This is true but a lot of these murders are gang related so it isn't quite a great comparison not?

I know the topics of guns in america is a hot topic in general but even for the usa the general trend is downward.

Re: Too Many Cops Are Told They’re Soldiers Fighting a War. How Did We Get Here?

#60

Post by fixxer » Wed, Jul 10, 2013, 5:48 PM UTC

I'm in constant awe of the state of fear in this country.