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Stop Glorifying Hard Work and Long Hours

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Re: Stop Glorifying Hard Work and Long Hours

#171

Post by grecy »

ryguytilidie wrote: post #6

I just don't get it at all. Just this morning I quit a job partly because of the hilarious hours and how inflexible our executive team was about them. It's like there's some sort of shame in working a normal workday, eating dinner at a normal hour and having your own life. I really vow to never put my health and well being on the line for a job where if we hit the jackpot I might get like 50 k and every other time I…

> It's like there's some sort of shame in working a normal workday, eating dinner at a normal hour and having your own life.

Agree 100%.

At my company I'm constantly being told I must work overtime, weekends, be on-call with a company cell phone etc. When I say no, people all over the company start directly telling me I'm not committed enough to the company, and I'm not "opening doors" for myself.

I work my butt off for 35-40 hours per week, and get tons done. That's more than enough.

Re: Stop Glorifying Hard Work and Long Hours

#172

Post by paranoiacblack »

cunac wrote: post #98
paranoiacblack wrote: post #54

No, you stop glorifying "smart" work and shorter hours. Could it possibly be that people work at different paces, have different work ethic, and have different aspirations, but that they can't be compared at face value purely on the hours worked? Just because you work less hours, doesn't necessarily imply you're doing the work "smarter," it probably just means that you are only doing the required the work. It is poss…

It is really simple(in this context of hard workers). If you are willing to work for free it is your choice but mostly that is not economically smart choice and most likely not healthy choice. Unfortunately seems that you equal hard work with amount of value provided (results) , but you actually should look what is efficiency of your work hour comparing to the others. Work != life in most cases , you can't stop life…

I don't know what you're talking about. Although raising a family might be your personal life, it is seriously HARD WORK. Just because you love your family, doesn't mean you don't work hard to provide for them. My parents, for example, are foster parents and so we have about 6-7 children around the house on average. Because of this they are always on the run; cleaning the house, keeping the children busy, paying bills, running errands, cooking food, supplementing what the children learn at school, and making sure to give the children a chance to go outside and play with others while supervising other's children. This is hard work. On top of this, they want to improve their household and themselves. They also run a foster parents association to help others in the area. Because of all of this, they don't usually go to sleep until 1-2am each day, to balance all of this. This is what I truly call HARD WORK.

Now, they could do what the author says and call it quits after 35 hours (what a fucking low # btw) of taking care of the children and running their organization. They should be proud of the amount of work they do to keep their family together and improve themselves. And you shouldn't be whining if they happen to make a twitter post about it. It's not your business.

Re: Stop Glorifying Hard Work and Long Hours

#173

Post by nether »

antitrust wrote: post #111
Arnor wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's time to leave that company. They don't deserve you.

Or time to talk with the boss' boss and remind him that time is money, and you can save him money. The incompetence of the people around you isn't your moral responsibility.

That'd be the president of the company (we're a small mechanical engineering firm), and he's even worse. He vetoed the request from my boss to upgrade to MS Office 2013. We're on a mix of XP/2003 right now, and Excel+Word are the lifeblood of our work.

Re: Stop Glorifying Hard Work and Long Hours

#174

Post by megaframe »

disarm them. Reply to their tweet/post saying you feel sorry they had to work so late, hopefully it will calm down for them soon. When it does they should join you for the exciting/fun/relaxing `insert activity` you're doing right now while they're at work.

Re: Stop Glorifying Hard Work and Long Hours

#175

Post by paranoiacblack »

nostrademons wrote: post #133
paranoiacblack wrote: post #54

No, you stop glorifying "smart" work and shorter hours. Could it possibly be that people work at different paces, have different work ethic, and have different aspirations, but that they can't be compared at face value purely on the hours worked? Just because you work less hours, doesn't necessarily imply you're doing the work "smarter," it probably just means that you are only doing the required the work. It is poss…

Your argument extends beyond work. What do you think folks with a work/life balance do with the "life" part? Veg out? Play videogames all day long? I've gone through periods of intense workaholisms, and I've gone through periods of laid-back socializing. I found that my work performance - as measured by promotions, salary, being put on important projects, and getting good jobs - actually improved when I let go and di…

First of all, you're talking about "workaholism." I'm not. I'm saying that there's nothing wrong with working extremely hard and that it doesn't imply inefficiency of less 'smart' work. Realize that there are things that are actually inherently hard and that you might, just maybe, need to work more than 35 hours a week to get them finished!

Also, the Steve Jobs quote is cute, but doesn't really address what I'm saying. Steve Jobs is purely saying that Bill Gates should have probably enjoyed his life more, but that doesn't mean he couldn't also work hard. There are actually 168 hours in a week. You can work for 60 hours and still drop acid, it turns out. You don't have to call it quits at 35 hours because you're supposedly working 'smarter' and Steve Jobs definitely didn't.

Re: Stop Glorifying Hard Work and Long Hours

#176

Post by delcom5 »

With many (15) years of experience in the industry from junior to now manager I have to say, GettingTheJobDone()works for me.

I found some people perform MUCH better at their own schedule, while some just have it in their DNA and enjoy working hard and long hours. Should we, however, abuse that? Absolutely NOT! They are the rare gems I admire.

Re: Stop Glorifying Hard Work and Long Hours

#177

Post by wallio »

RyanZAG wrote: post #101
edw519 wrote: post #19

For developers building something, the following are often true: Tweeting != Work TalkingAboutWork != Work Blogging != Work DoingSomethingInYourIDE does not necessarily = Work DoingSomethingInGithub does not necessarily = Work ThinkingButAppearingToBeDoingNothing may = Work Meetings != Work CodeReview may = Work Testing usually = Work DeliveringBuiltSoftware(AndItsPrerequisites) = Work HackerNews definitely != Work

I disagree here. If what you're saying is correct, then the following would be true: School != Work Learning new language != Work Testing new lang/framework != Work This is blatantly false, because doing these things may enable you to create something you couldn't before. Let's take two people. Person A only does code. Person B both codes and learns new theory. Person A creates something in X hours. Person B spends X…

You make an interesting point that perhaps learning is NOT working. While learning can help you get more work done it is not work itself. In fact it is often an imitation of actual work - pretend or practice work: an essay the never get published, a program that never gets run or a calculation that never gets used.

This is an interesting distinction and depends on the exact definition of "work". However work is clearly not the same thing as learning.

Re: Stop Glorifying Hard Work and Long Hours

#179

Post by jasonlotito »

rfnslyr wrote: post #32
jasonlotito wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on the meetings. And if you are wasting time in meetings, then you are wasting time in meetings.

Not in a very large corporate environment. I have had so many meetings where I didn't say a word, didn't even know anyone there. Manager I talked to like once a month sent me meeting requests and I went. It was pointless. They weren't optional either.

I've never worked in a very large corporate environment.

> meeting requests

Did you ever reject the request? I'm honestly curious to know what would happen?

Did you ever speak up to your manager about this? His manager?

I guess the real question is, what did you do to fix this?

Re: Stop Glorifying Hard Work and Long Hours

#180

Post by chasing »

antitrust wrote: post #114
chasing wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Elon Musk, Oprah, Marissa Meyer, Bill Gates, Jack Dorsey -- these are people who have been wildly over-compensated for their time. (Not that they don't deserve what they get, but they make huge amounts of money.) They work because they want to, and if they didn't they could retire tomorrow and live like kings/queens for the rest of their lives. Odds are, you're not in this camp. And never will be. (And sometimes I wo…

> Elon Musk, Oprah, Marissa Meyer, Bill Gates, Jack Dorsey Not to be a cynic, but except in the case of Bill Gates, it's not clear these people were not cases of being in the right place at the right time more than any specific brilliance.

That's basically what I mean. There are so many other factors involved. "Overwork = Bill Gates" is just about as meaningful as "Dropping out of school = Bill Gates." Maybe! But probably not.
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