Stop Glorifying Hard Work and Long Hours • Hacker News Board

Re: Stop Glorifying Hard Work and Long Hours

#151

Post by swamp40 » Wed, Jul 10, 2013, 4:43 PM UTC

eli_gottlieb wrote: post #84

swamp40 wrote: post #11

Well, there are certainly two camps with regard to this. If you don't feel like going over to Alex's campfire, holding hands and singing Kumbaya - let me invite you over to the other fire for an inspirational moment before getting back to work: "Americans love to fight. All real Americans love the sting and clash of battle. When you were kids, you all admired the champion marble shooter, the fastest runner, the big-l…

Oh, I do love a false dichotomy between a zero-sum contest to the death and a hippie commune. Real Americans apparently love the sting and clash of battle, which is why you have most of the rest of the world pissed-off at you.

...Sayeth the pot unto the kettle...

Re: Stop Glorifying Hard Work and Long Hours

#152

Post by sbjustin » Wed, Jul 10, 2013, 4:48 PM UTC

RyanZAG wrote: post #101

edw519 wrote: post #19

For developers building something, the following are often true: Tweeting != Work TalkingAboutWork != Work Blogging != Work DoingSomethingInYourIDE does not necessarily = Work DoingSomethingInGithub does not necessarily = Work ThinkingButAppearingToBeDoingNothing may = Work Meetings != Work CodeReview may = Work Testing usually = Work DeliveringBuiltSoftware(AndItsPrerequisites) = Work HackerNews definitely != Work

I disagree here. If what you're saying is correct, then the following would be true: School != Work Learning new language != Work Testing new lang/framework != Work This is blatantly false, because doing these things may enable you to create something you couldn't before. Let's take two people. Person A only does code. Person B both codes and learns new theory. Person A creates something in X hours. Person B spends X…

I agree. Perhaps a better clarification would be billable work vs work?

Re: Stop Glorifying Hard Work and Long Hours

#153

Post by GoldfishCRM » Wed, Jul 10, 2013, 4:48 PM UTC

Amen

Re: Stop Glorifying Hard Work and Long Hours

#154

Post by iends » Wed, Jul 10, 2013, 4:49 PM UTC

chasing wrote: post #72

yangez wrote: post #5

> I have a friend who brags that he busts his * 60 hours a week driving a Coca-Cola delivery truck. Congratulations, I work 35 and make twice as much as he does. This is a straw man. The point is that if you worked 50 vs 35 hours at the same job, you'd simply get more done - even considering diminishing returns. There's a reason many hugely successful people are notorious workaholics - see Elon Musk, Oprah, Marissa M…

Also, let me point out: Of all of the people in this country who overwork themselves, the percentage who became billionaire titans-of-industry is, for all intents and purposes, zero. Millions (or tens-of-millions) of Americans overwork. There's one Bill Gates.

No, but I'll overwork myself in my 20s to have 5 million in my 30s, much more achievable.

Re: Stop Glorifying Hard Work and Long Hours

#155

Post by workhere-io » Wed, Jul 10, 2013, 4:50 PM UTC

glogla wrote: post #134

workhere-io wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fetishizing hard work is a purely American phenomenon True, if by "American" you mean "American, German, Swiss, Austrian, Swedish, Japanese, Victorian British, and Protestant". (I'm sure I left out a few, actually).

I do have some experience with Germans, and I don't think so. Germans are pros. They expect you to be professionals, the expect you to be prepared, on time, and do a good work, and they expect you not to waste anyone's time. This, in the end, makes for a every different business culture than I remember from US -- the meetings are as short as possible. The managers actually listen to their engineers, because their exp…

I have worked with a lot of Germans, and they do value long hours - as well as efficiency.

Re: Stop Glorifying Hard Work and Long Hours

#156

Post by shrikant » Wed, Jul 10, 2013, 4:51 PM UTC

oz wrote: post #127

rfnslyr wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You need to run the scripts under the radar. Once you are discovered you are fucked. No manager will pat you on the back for automating your work. Programming is a tool in your toolbelt that should be used with stealth.

Listen to this advice. There was a guy on Reddit sometime ago who automated lots of his work, and his co-workers hated him for it. Wish I could find the thread.

I remember that.

Original thread: http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/tenoq/reddit_my_f...

Follow-up: http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/vomtn/update_my_f...

Re: Stop Glorifying Hard Work and Long Hours

#157

Post by swamp40 » Wed, Jul 10, 2013, 4:56 PM UTC

wf wrote: post #46

This seems incredibly one sided to me and I'm surprised at the number of people who are in agreement. I guess if you make the assumption that the person is lazy or inefficient and that's the reason they're working hard then this would make sense. However, I'm 24; I work a day job from 8 to 5; I go to the gym and go home and work on a startup from ~7-12 and do it all over again. And yea, I'm proud of that. Not only th…

Don't let them drag you down. You are 100% on track - good job.

Re: Stop Glorifying Hard Work and Long Hours

#158

Post by hayward2 » Wed, Jul 10, 2013, 4:57 PM UTC

Work in itself is not fulfilling unless you are a simpleton. Fulfilling intellectual curiosity, relationships, pleasure, those things are fulfilling. Work is simply a means to those ends. It's amazing how many people don't understand this.

I'm not a hacker because I love programming and it's my purpose in life and the reason I live. I program because it's a relatively good career and an efficient way to make money so that one day I won't have to (and while I do, I still get 30+ hours a week to pursue the things that do bring fulfillment). Sure I'd rather be a programmer than a plumber, truck driver, accountant or even another highly paid profession like corporate lawyer, but I'd rather be an independently wealthy intellectual seeker, family man, world traveler, explorer and pleasure-seeker than a programmer...

Re: Stop Glorifying Hard Work and Long Hours

#159

Post by ritchiea » Wed, Jul 10, 2013, 4:58 PM UTC

RyanZAG wrote: post #101

edw519 wrote: post #19

For developers building something, the following are often true: Tweeting != Work TalkingAboutWork != Work Blogging != Work DoingSomethingInYourIDE does not necessarily = Work DoingSomethingInGithub does not necessarily = Work ThinkingButAppearingToBeDoingNothing may = Work Meetings != Work CodeReview may = Work Testing usually = Work DeliveringBuiltSoftware(AndItsPrerequisites) = Work HackerNews definitely != Work

I disagree here. If what you're saying is correct, then the following would be true: School != Work Learning new language != Work Testing new lang/framework != Work This is blatantly false, because doing these things may enable you to create something you couldn't before. Let's take two people. Person A only does code. Person B both codes and learns new theory. Person A creates something in X hours. Person B spends X…

It really depends on what you're reading on HN, if you're reading about acquisitions or gossip or meta commentary like this, then definitely HN != work if you're reading a technical article then definitely HN = work. And I believe they're both useful information, but one of them definitely isn't work.

Re: Stop Glorifying Hard Work and Long Hours

#160

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Jul 10, 2013, 4:59 PM UTC

oz wrote: post #127

rfnslyr wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You need to run the scripts under the radar. Once you are discovered you are fucked. No manager will pat you on the back for automating your work. Programming is a tool in your toolbelt that should be used with stealth.

Listen to this advice. There was a guy on Reddit sometime ago who automated lots of his work, and his co-workers hated him for it. Wish I could find the thread.

[deleted]