Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Stop Glorifying Hard Work and Long Hours

alexstechthoughts.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

121–130 of 246 posts

Re: Stop Glorifying Hard Work and Long Hours

#121

Post by tdees40 »

rfnslyr wrote: post #3

When I worked at a large corporation, I nearly automated all of my work and I was called lazy. I'd do about an hour work a day, customize an existing script to process new data, then read for the remaining 6 hours. Co-workers called me a lazy nerd and proceeded to copy paste words into excel for 8 hours. Now I get to wake up at 12, smoke a joint, have a beer, take a shower, go for a walk with my dog, and then work on…

So every twenty-two year old I've ever met has told me how boring their entry-level corporate job was and how they just want to get out. Fine. But recognize that your job is boring because entry-level jobs are boring. They just exist to see if you're sane and you'll do work; once you prove yourself you get more interesting jobs.

But most twenty-two year olds check out long before that happens.

Re: Stop Glorifying Hard Work and Long Hours

#122

Post by kyllo »

ramchip wrote: post #103
kyllo wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See, if working extra hours at your job will actually make you rich and/or influential, or if you just plain enjoy the heck out of your job, then you have a very good reason to do it. But I've also seen people put in 50-60 hours at a job where others put in 40 and get paid basically the same salary, without any increased possibility of promotion either. They were basically workaholics for the sake of it, or for appea…

I work this kind of hours right now, but I think you're wrong about the motives for most people. I don't care about security (not thinking of staying in the long term, no wife/kids to support) and I see no moral superiority in working more. But I do get strong pressure from above to stay late (X is urgent, "you're not leaving the office before Y is done", team calls being scheduled after hours regularly, etc), and th…

Yeah, if it's just the culture of the place, then of course there is strong social pressure and guilt-tripping that compels you to stay late like the others do. If you go against an organizational culture of staying late, your coworkers will likely resent you, your boss will think you are lazy or insubordinate, and you are probably going to be the proverbial nail that sticks out and gets hammered down. Better to just put up or leave.

I was referring to cases where it isn't necessarily the norm of the organization to stay late every day, but a few people do it anyway, for their own reasons.

Another possibility--their home life sucks and they would rather be at the office anyway. Sad, but sometimes true.

Re: Stop Glorifying Hard Work and Long Hours

#123

Post by rfnslyr »

wavesounds wrote: post #118
rfnslyr wrote: post #3

When I worked at a large corporation, I nearly automated all of my work and I was called lazy. I'd do about an hour work a day, customize an existing script to process new data, then read for the remaining 6 hours. Co-workers called me a lazy nerd and proceeded to copy paste words into excel for 8 hours. Now I get to wake up at 12, smoke a joint, have a beer, take a shower, go for a walk with my dog, and then work on…

Amen Brutha! My last job I had coworkers who would complain to me that they got bored over the week we had off for Christmas vacation. I'm so much happier now that I'm away from that culture and am working with people who love what they do and love doing other things as well.

Same here. How could you possibly be bored with a week off? When I had a weekend off I basically planned all the fun shit by the hour that I was going to do. Shows, beers with friends, trips, bike riding, tons of stuff to do!

Re: Stop Glorifying Hard Work and Long Hours

#124

Post by stygianguest »

ajross wrote: post #120
enraged_camel wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fetishizing hard work is a purely American phenomenon. Like many other parts of American culture, it has to do with the country's Puritan roots. Back in England, the Puritans were entirely city people. Even those who lived on the countryside were not farmers. So when they came to America, they had to work extra hard to learn farming and adopt that lifestyle, which was made even more difficult by the fact that the soi…

Actually I think that's entirely backwards. The celebration (calling it "fetishization" is a little loaded for my tastes) of leisure time across a whole workforce is a very recent phenomenon, and it's limited almost exclusively to post-war western Europe. Everyone else is still cheering for elbow grease. Hard labor has been the norm in our society since before it was a society. For thousands of years, people who work…

A counterpoint: "Like most of my generation, I was brought up on the saying: 'Satan finds some mischief for idle hands to do.' Being a highly virtuous child, I believed all that I was told, and acquired a conscience which has kept me working hard down to the present moment." -Bertran Russel in 1932

see http://www.zpub.com/notes/idle.html it is a good read

Re: Stop Glorifying Hard Work and Long Hours

#125

Post by beachstartup »

yangez wrote: post #5

> I have a friend who brags that he busts his * 60 hours a week driving a Coca-Cola delivery truck. Congratulations, I work 35 and make twice as much as he does. This is a straw man. The point is that if you worked 50 vs 35 hours at the same job, you'd simply get more done - even considering diminishing returns. There's a reason many hugely successful people are notorious workaholics - see Elon Musk, Oprah, Marissa M…

how about the guy who owns a 200 person business who lives in a giant house, has a fleet of vehicles, servants, and doesn't work that hard because he built his business over the course of 20 years?

he's rich too, you've just never heard of him because he didn't work so hard as to become famous

Re: Stop Glorifying Hard Work and Long Hours

#126

Post by arethuza »

swamp40 wrote: post #11

Well, there are certainly two camps with regard to this. If you don't feel like going over to Alex's campfire, holding hands and singing Kumbaya - let me invite you over to the other fire for an inspirational moment before getting back to work: "Americans love to fight. All real Americans love the sting and clash of battle. When you were kids, you all admired the champion marble shooter, the fastest runner, the big-l…

Interestingly enough there was a famous study done by the American Army during WW2 that discovered just how reluctant most people are to kill others:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_Killing:_The_Psychological_C...

Re: Stop Glorifying Hard Work and Long Hours

#127

Post by oz »

rfnslyr wrote: post #91
nether wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When I worked at a large corporation, I nearly automated all of my work and I was called lazy. I'd do about an hour work a day, customize an existing script to process new data, then read for the remaining 6 hours. Co-workers called me a lazy nerd and proceeded to copy paste words into excel for 8 hours. Oh my god, I'm dealing with this now. I made a Python program that automated a lot of our Excel work. It reduced…

You need to run the scripts under the radar. Once you are discovered you are fucked. No manager will pat you on the back for automating your work. Programming is a tool in your toolbelt that should be used with stealth.

Listen to this advice. There was a guy on Reddit sometime ago who automated lots of his work, and his co-workers hated him for it. Wish I could find the thread.

Re: Stop Glorifying Hard Work and Long Hours

#128

Post by Nursie »

joeblau wrote: post #58
rfnslyr wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meetings: where minutes are taken and hours are wasted.

Hehe, I used to work at a place where it seemed like the only purpose of a meeting was to schedule another meeting at the end.

I've been in meetings where we schedule meetings to talk about the time it will take to come up with the plan to allocate developer time to coming up with a plan of how to tackle a problem.

I found it hilarious because (thankfully) that part of the meeting was nothing to do with me.

I'm now a contractor. I do the tech stuff and I do it well, and nobody involves me in meetings because I'm not part of the company and I don't have to care!

Re: Stop Glorifying Hard Work and Long Hours

#129

Post by sets13 »

antitrust wrote: post #85
wf wrote: post #46

This seems incredibly one sided to me and I'm surprised at the number of people who are in agreement. I guess if you make the assumption that the person is lazy or inefficient and that's the reason they're working hard then this would make sense. However, I'm 24; I work a day job from 8 to 5; I go to the gym and go home and work on a startup from ~7-12 and do it all over again. And yea, I'm proud of that. Not only th…

> I'm 24; I work a day job from 8 to 5; I go to the gym and go home and work on a startup from ~7-12 and do it all over again. And your life occurs where in that process? Sounds like a path to being a droid.

Just because you wouldn't personally enjoy that life doesn't make it inherently wrong. Perhaps he enjoys his work and the people he works with, and finds his start up work at night very fulfilling who are you or I to decide that he is wrong or missing out?

Re: Stop Glorifying Hard Work and Long Hours

#130

Post by swamp40 »

swamp40 wrote: post #11

Well, there are certainly two camps with regard to this. If you don't feel like going over to Alex's campfire, holding hands and singing Kumbaya - let me invite you over to the other fire for an inspirational moment before getting back to work: "Americans love to fight. All real Americans love the sting and clash of battle. When you were kids, you all admired the champion marble shooter, the fastest runner, the big-l…

Here's another: "Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work." ~ Thomas A. Edison
Post reply on HN