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Stop Glorifying Hard Work and Long Hours

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Re: Stop Glorifying Hard Work and Long Hours

#91

Post by rfnslyr »

nether wrote: post #70
rfnslyr wrote: post #3

When I worked at a large corporation, I nearly automated all of my work and I was called lazy. I'd do about an hour work a day, customize an existing script to process new data, then read for the remaining 6 hours. Co-workers called me a lazy nerd and proceeded to copy paste words into excel for 8 hours. Now I get to wake up at 12, smoke a joint, have a beer, take a shower, go for a walk with my dog, and then work on…

> When I worked at a large corporation, I nearly automated all of my work and I was called lazy. I'd do about an hour work a day, customize an existing script to process new data, then read for the remaining 6 hours. Co-workers called me a lazy nerd and proceeded to copy paste words into excel for 8 hours. Oh my god, I'm dealing with this now. I made a Python program that automated a lot of our Excel work. It reduced…

You need to run the scripts under the radar. Once you are discovered you are fucked. No manager will pat you on the back for automating your work.

Programming is a tool in your toolbelt that should be used with stealth.

Re: Stop Glorifying Hard Work and Long Hours

#92

Post by wf »

antitrust wrote: post #85
wf wrote: post #46

This seems incredibly one sided to me and I'm surprised at the number of people who are in agreement. I guess if you make the assumption that the person is lazy or inefficient and that's the reason they're working hard then this would make sense. However, I'm 24; I work a day job from 8 to 5; I go to the gym and go home and work on a startup from ~7-12 and do it all over again. And yea, I'm proud of that. Not only th…

> I'm 24; I work a day job from 8 to 5; I go to the gym and go home and work on a startup from ~7-12 and do it all over again. And your life occurs where in that process? Sounds like a path to being a droid.

How so? I'm doing exactly what I want to be doing. I didn't say I don't socialize or go out on the weekends etc. I admit it's sparse because of my work but I love my life right now and if it pays off in the long run, even better.

Re: Stop Glorifying Hard Work and Long Hours

#93

Post by Shivetya »

corresation wrote: post #16
yangez wrote: post #5

> I have a friend who brags that he busts his * 60 hours a week driving a Coca-Cola delivery truck. Congratulations, I work 35 and make twice as much as he does. This is a straw man. The point is that if you worked 50 vs 35 hours at the same job, you'd simply get more done - even considering diminishing returns. There's a reason many hugely successful people are notorious workaholics - see Elon Musk, Oprah, Marissa M…

The point is that if you worked 50 vs 35 hours at the same job But isn't that, in many ways, the point? We need to optimize every hour of our life, because life (and in particular youth) really is short. If I choose to spend my life cutting grass with a pair of nail clippers, I can absolutely get more done spending 60 hours versus 35 hours. But you know, I'd rather pull out the driving lawn mower. That should be all…

The blog post was built on a bs argument. Apples and Oranges. Desk job versus physical labor. I guess we could argue since someone who works as a developer makes more per hour than someone at McDonalds they are making better use of their time.

You pull your own hyperbole as well.

Being successful does not make you a workaholic, and being a workaholic does not make your successful. I know more than enough workaholics who are because that is exactly what they enjoy. They work sixty hours because it keeps them occupied. It fulfills them.

The blog fails for the same reason your failing, your comparing yourself to others instead of your own goals. Your goals and your ability to meet or exceed them are what matters. How someone else does that does not, never has and never will. Some do it to push themselves, far too many do it to feel superior. Both are wrong.

Re: Stop Glorifying Hard Work and Long Hours

#94

Post by JonFish85 »

antitrust wrote: post #60
amirmc wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Meetings: where minutes are taken and hours are wasted" Only if you run bad meetings. Don't call one without an agenda. Stick to that agenda (have a chair). Arrive and leave on time. Send minutes (even notes) within the hour after the meeting. Meetings take discipline on the part of the attendees and it's just a structured communication method. It's not fair to blame the tool because most people are too lazy to us…

> It's not fair to blame the tool because most people are too lazy to use it well. Which tool? The tool who called the meeting? Har-har... I'm here all week. But seriously, I think you make a good point. There's an equally good counterpoint, which is that most people can't do this well. Would training help? Or are some people congenitally boring and disorganized (the two are related, I think)?

I think better training would help. In a lot of ways, I think meetings are an attempt to make up for bad communication. If team size has grown to the point where team members aren't able/willing to communicate with each other outside of having a formal meeting, that's when meetings almost have to be called, to make sure everyone in the room is on the same page.

I wish the MBAs would figure out a way to minimize formal "meetings" by encouraging better informal communication. Not all situations need meetings, maybe things are better solved by a simple "walk over to Jill's desk and hash it out there". Just my opinion though, I don't have formal training in management!

Re: Stop Glorifying Hard Work and Long Hours

#96

Post by zivins »

wf wrote: post #46

This seems incredibly one sided to me and I'm surprised at the number of people who are in agreement. I guess if you make the assumption that the person is lazy or inefficient and that's the reason they're working hard then this would make sense. However, I'm 24; I work a day job from 8 to 5; I go to the gym and go home and work on a startup from ~7-12 and do it all over again. And yea, I'm proud of that. Not only th…

While I don't necessarily like to see people brag about working hard, I definitely agree that this post is one sided and misses the point. If your work is just a way to make money and do things you enjoy, you should change your profession to something you're passionate about. Your work should be your craft. But if you'd like to just make money and explore the world and try different hobbies, more power to you. But don't assume that everyone who works long hours is just inefficient.

And I also think the comment about the truck driver is extremely snobby. Truck drivers provide an essential service and they have to work long hard hours away from their families. I don't care if you make twice as much and work half the hours. Don't be a dick.

Re: Stop Glorifying Hard Work and Long Hours

#97

Post by walshemj »

antitrust wrote: post #85
wf wrote: post #46

This seems incredibly one sided to me and I'm surprised at the number of people who are in agreement. I guess if you make the assumption that the person is lazy or inefficient and that's the reason they're working hard then this would make sense. However, I'm 24; I work a day job from 8 to 5; I go to the gym and go home and work on a startup from ~7-12 and do it all over again. And yea, I'm proud of that. Not only th…

> I'm 24; I work a day job from 8 to 5; I go to the gym and go home and work on a startup from ~7-12 and do it all over again. And your life occurs where in that process? Sounds like a path to being a droid.

or work your self an early grave like my mate who works for one of the big 4 in London has seen some of his young co workers do.

Re: Stop Glorifying Hard Work and Long Hours

#98

Post by cunac »

paranoiacblack wrote: post #54

No, you stop glorifying "smart" work and shorter hours. Could it possibly be that people work at different paces, have different work ethic, and have different aspirations, but that they can't be compared at face value purely on the hours worked? Just because you work less hours, doesn't necessarily imply you're doing the work "smarter," it probably just means that you are only doing the required the work. It is poss…

It is really simple(in this context of hard workers). If you are willing to work for free it is your choice but mostly that is not economically smart choice and most likely not healthy choice. Unfortunately seems that you equal hard work with amount of value provided (results) , but you actually should look what is efficiency of your work hour comparing to the others.

Work != life in most cases , you can't stop life but you can stop working so your family analogy doesn't hold up

Re: Stop Glorifying Hard Work and Long Hours

#99

Post by easy_rider »

edw519 wrote: post #19

For developers building something, the following are often true: Tweeting != Work TalkingAboutWork != Work Blogging != Work DoingSomethingInYourIDE does not necessarily = Work DoingSomethingInGithub does not necessarily = Work ThinkingButAppearingToBeDoingNothing may = Work Meetings != Work CodeReview may = Work Testing usually = Work DeliveringBuiltSoftware(AndItsPrerequisites) = Work HackerNews definitely != Work

I had a talk with my girlfriend the other day; she asked me if I'm working more now (freelancing for 2 months now) than I was doing at my FT job with overtime. I reckoned i was more busy now, while I just always would tell here I was working.

I clearly am not making as many productive hours. This of course has to do a lot with all the things involving starting your own business. Also being mechanically confined to a 5 year old windows laptop, looking into buying new hardware, actually setting it up, and then setting up all your dev needs sure amounts to a lot of time. *I would definitely call it work, but not production. Your "reading HN" clause will absolutely hold.

Re: Stop Glorifying Hard Work and Long Hours

#100

Post by njharman »

yangez wrote: post #5

> I have a friend who brags that he busts his * 60 hours a week driving a Coca-Cola delivery truck. Congratulations, I work 35 and make twice as much as he does. This is a straw man. The point is that if you worked 50 vs 35 hours at the same job, you'd simply get more done - even considering diminishing returns. There's a reason many hugely successful people are notorious workaholics - see Elon Musk, Oprah, Marissa M…

> you'd simply get more done

So Fucking What?

This, you, are the problem OP is talking about. Productivity and "work" are not even close to what should be societal priorities.

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