Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Surviving Emacs

bc.tech.coop

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 25 posts

Re: Surviving Emacs

#11

Post by breck »

pohl wrote: post #3

Interesting article. The thing that stood out the most, though, is that the author is so focused on solving the RSI problem through changing his tools (hardware & software) that I could not find any mention of the single most effective change one can make: an intelligent incorporation of strategic stretching in one's daily routine. In my case, certain muscles were so tight that my wrists would curl inward while I sle…

Another data point: I started indoor climbing at a local gym a few times per week(for ~ 20 minutes) and I rarely have any wrist pain nowadays.

Re: Surviving Emacs

#12

Post by silentbicycle »

breck wrote: post #11
pohl wrote: post #3

Interesting article. The thing that stood out the most, though, is that the author is so focused on solving the RSI problem through changing his tools (hardware & software) that I could not find any mention of the single most effective change one can make: an intelligent incorporation of strategic stretching in one's daily routine. In my case, certain muscles were so tight that my wrists would curl inward while I sle…

Another data point: I started indoor climbing at a local gym a few times per week(for ~ 20 minutes) and I rarely have any wrist pain nowadays.

I wonder if it's from strengthening your wrists, exercising them in a way that releases tension, or both?

Re: Surviving Emacs

#13

Post by silentbicycle »

pohl wrote: post #5
silentbicycle wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed. Typing timers like xwrits ( http://www.lcdf.org/xwrits/ ) and workrave ( http://www.workrave.org/welcome/ ) help, but the thing that's most directly helped me is a series of wrist stretches I learned while studying Aikido (a martial art that involves a lot of wrist joint locks). The names differ from school to school, but searching for "aikido wrist stretches" on youtube etc. should be good enough. (I use Dvo…

Interesting. I did find such a video on youtube, and the stretches appear to be similar to the ones I encountered in Butler's book. The one video that I sampled, though, was entirely focused on the wrists. One interesting thing about the way muscular tension is networked throughout the body is that when one muscular group is compromised, another will compensate. This ultimately can cause a network of failures, so str…

Aikido's all about moving "from your center", moving your body as a whole. It can sometimes go into mystic-sounding "chi"/"ki" talk, but precisely verbalizing things that often depend on really subtle timing and positioning is hard.

Re: Surviving Emacs

#14

Post by tel »

silentbicycle wrote: post #12
breck wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another data point: I started indoor climbing at a local gym a few times per week(for ~ 20 minutes) and I rarely have any wrist pain nowadays.

I wonder if it's from strengthening your wrists, exercising them in a way that releases tension, or both?

I have the same experience as the op and suggest that it's pretty multidimensional. Climbing puts a lot of stress on your hands and you simply have to both increase strength, flexibility, and overall hand health to climb effectively.

It's kind of the anti-RSI.

Re: Surviving Emacs

#15

Post by cwinters »

I've had a kinesis keyboard for ~9 years, and after using it for a few weeks I thought it should be required for any emacs user. Putting ctrl-alt (and enter) under your strongest digits just makes so much sense.

Re: Surviving Emacs

#16

Post by visitor4rmindia »

Ok - I know I may be downmodded for this but wouldn't it just make more sense to switch to an editor that maybe doesn't cause you RSI problems?

All I'm saying is that if you have to go through so much pain and trouble to use a piece of software then just maybe it's not right for you.

Also I'm not suggesting Vi but Emacs has a pretty good Viper-mode that may help with RSI issues. I use EMacs with Viper and I can pretty much work with minor hiccups when I switch from Vim. Just a suggestion.

Re: Surviving Emacs

#17

Post by sharkbrainguy »

visitor4rmindia wrote: post #16

Ok - I know I may be downmodded for this but wouldn't it just make more sense to switch to an editor that maybe doesn't cause you RSI problems? All I'm saying is that if you have to go through so much pain and trouble to use a piece of software then just maybe it's not right for you. Also I'm not suggesting Vi but Emacs has a pretty good Viper-mode that may help with RSI issues. I use EMacs with Viper and I can prett…

If you're used to vim, vimpulse brings viper mode alot closer.

http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/vimpulse

Re: Surviving Emacs

#18

Post by travisjeffery »

I agree, do some exercises and stretches and you'll be fine. Also map some of functions you use often to better places. I myself think M-x is an annoying combination so I made it to C-x C-m and find it much more comfortable.

Also to the guy who asked why not use Vim or another editor because it's more comfortable? Come on, it the same reasons all over again. Extensibility is probably the biggest reason. I also can't stand Vim Script (or trying to use Python/Ruby/whatever to script Vim.) And in some cases the Emacs community writes the kind of stuff I like more, modes with really good syntax highlighting and indentation and such.

I find Vim's indentation especially lacking compared to Emacs.

Re: Surviving Emacs

#19

Post by visitor4rmindia »

sharkbrainguy wrote: post #17
visitor4rmindia wrote: post #16

Ok - I know I may be downmodded for this but wouldn't it just make more sense to switch to an editor that maybe doesn't cause you RSI problems? All I'm saying is that if you have to go through so much pain and trouble to use a piece of software then just maybe it's not right for you. Also I'm not suggesting Vi but Emacs has a pretty good Viper-mode that may help with RSI issues. I use EMacs with Viper and I can prett…

If you're used to vim, vimpulse brings viper mode alot closer. http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/vimpulse

Thanks - will try it out.

Re: Surviving Emacs

#20

Post by silentbicycle »

visitor4rmindia wrote: post #16

Ok - I know I may be downmodded for this but wouldn't it just make more sense to switch to an editor that maybe doesn't cause you RSI problems? All I'm saying is that if you have to go through so much pain and trouble to use a piece of software then just maybe it's not right for you. Also I'm not suggesting Vi but Emacs has a pretty good Viper-mode that may help with RSI issues. I use EMacs with Viper and I can prett…

Yes, it would. People aren't persisting in using Emacs because it's a good editor, but rather because it's an integrated environment for manipulating anything textual (which happens to be scripted in a Lisp dialect). The integration is the important part, and it's integrated in a very different sense than, say, Visual Studio or Eclipse. It just happens to have ergonomically nightmarish default keybindings (and other historical baggage), and a culture that perpetuates them.

I've tried viper mode (I used vim for five years before I started using Emacs, and I still use nvi for quick editing sometimes), but it's against the current of the ten million other settings Emacs has.

I would love to see a real alternative to that facet of Emacs (and would work on one, if I ever got that kind of time...), but vim isn't it. Wily / Acme are closer, perhaps, but they trade complex keybindings for switching constantly between the mouse and keyboard, which is likely worse.

Post reply on HN