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"Ender's Game" movie faces a boycott

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Re: "Ender's Game" movie faces a boycott

#71

Post by whiddershins »

laumars wrote: post #69
ukoto wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

laced with hate-speech This is like the made up term "homophobia". Just because I disagree with you and use my free speech to do so, does not give you the right to assume my opinions are coming from negative attributes. On the contrary, I care deeply about the future for my children. lots of older couples, infertile couples, 'normal' couples get married And they certainly can get married and consummate. It's unfortun…

>* Just because I disagree with you and use my free speech to do so, does not give you the right to assume my opinions are coming from negative attributes.* Free speech is a responsibility - not a right to say dumb things just because you can.

Actually, yes, free speech includes the right to say dumb things just because you can. The responsibility is entirely optional. Otherwise it wouldn't be free speech. It would be called "responsible speech."

Re: "Ender's Game" movie faces a boycott

#72

Post by scotty79 »

dsr_ wrote: post #37

I liked Ender's Game when I first read it. Then I thought about it. Ignore anything else the author has done: in this particular story, he poses a conflict between survival and ethical behavior, and illustrates it repeatedly... by having characters choose survival over ethics. He makes them heroes for it. Well. That's a brave stance. Except... that every time a character is given that decision, it is also clear, whet…

I liked the book (which I read being young teen) exactly because it was a tale of organized child abuse (that's how I saw any armed forces btw), hero worship and genocide, with a "hero" who doesn't know what he's doing. I didn't see the redemption though. Maybe is's beaceause I read "Speaker for the dead" soon after. Although as I recall it was clearly said that Peter won't let Ender come back to earth at least not to be anything else than his puppet.

Of course as a teen I very much liked startegy, tactics, battles and kind of lord of the flies social dynamics that rang a bell with my earlier childhood memories.

I guess that this books somehow shaped my view of the world as I usually think that survival is the most impotant thing but that there's no glory or moral high ground to it and the fact you survived or saved someone doesn't absolve you in any way from what you did to achieve that.

Re: "Ender's Game" movie faces a boycott

#74

Post by Amadou »

pron wrote: post #47
pron wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not saying that your view is wrong, but I should point out that it neuters almost every kind of political action. Almost every undertaking is carried out by a large group of people. Most of them are innocent. All of them are probably nice. But bad things are often done by nice people -- sometimes because they don't realize that they're bad. Sometimes because they don't care enough. There are no bond-villains in r…

Replying to myself: I haven't read Ender's Game, and I don't even know what it's about, but reading the Wikipedia article I've found something ironic: Radford's criticisms are echoed in John Kessel's essay "Creating the Innocent Killer: Ender's Game, Intention, and Morality." Kessel reasons that Card justifies Ender's righteous rage and violence: "Ender gets to strike out at his enemies and still remain morally clean…

I haven't read the essay, and its been decades since I read any of Card's books. But IIRC, the ending of the first book did not excuse him at all, it wrapped up abruptly and left the reader (me at least) reeling as to the full consequences of Ender's actions. A (the?) primary theme of the sequels was Ender trying to atone for his actions.

The lesson I took from the first book was that blind faith in leaders is terribly destructive -- that a moral person can never hand over the responsibility for their morality to anyone else. I was a teenager when I read it and I'd put that down as one of the formative lessons of my teen years.

Re: "Ender's Game" movie faces a boycott

#75

Post by cageface »

ckozlowski wrote: post #31

Without weighting in on OSC's views (as those are well covered elsewhere), I thought I'd point out something regarding the salaries and pay of those who worked on the movie, the support of which keeps coming up. For anyone working on the film, stagehand, technician, engineer, whathave you, those people are already paid. They collect a salary throughout the years they're working on the film. They don't go unpaid until…

A lot of film studios pay crew bonuses for films that succeed at the box office. So a boycott in this case might actually take money out of the pockets of the rank & file.

Re: "Ender's Game" movie faces a boycott

#76

Post by sneak »

anonymous wrote: post #49
EnderMB wrote: post #16

It seems like a terrible thing to do to the hundreds of potentially nice people that worked hard on this movie. People will boycott this because of peer pressure, and to follow the crowd. People don't boycott the countless movies based on Roald Dahl books, even though it's very common knowledge that he held strong anti-semitic views. Yes, I think his views are terrible, but that's not going to stop me enjoying his wo…

When I first read the title, I thought they wanted me to boycott the movie because it wouldn't honour the book. Turns out it's because Orson Scott Card is an influential asshole who doesn't like gay people? I'm not sorry, and this is just petty poop-flinging. Hollywood as a whole is full of assholes and I don't see what makes this one special.

Some fraction of your ticket price will likely fund the oppression of others.

Re: "Ender's Game" movie faces a boycott

#77

Post by waylandsmithers »

I'm not sure I entirely sign off on this complete lack of separation between art and artist. I understand that context is important, but does the artist really need to be a good person for his or her work to make you think, or feel an emotion, or be entertained?

I don't think it's entirely fair to assume an inherent bias or hidden agenda in the work based solely off beliefs the creator is believed to hold. What if Card felt this way, but just kept those feelings to himself? I understand that people don't want to support or empower those like Card, so I'm personally conflicted now as to whether I will see this film.

As an interesting personal side note, I went to high school in Massachusetts in the early 2000s, when the state was at the forefront of progress for same-sex marriage, and Ender's Game was required reader for every English class during the summer before sophomore year. I suspect it still is, and it's probably required at other schools. We spent weeks discussing the book, and it still comes up in conversation every now and then, since we all had to read it, and this is the first I've heard about Card's homophobic beliefs.

Re: "Ender's Game" movie faces a boycott

#78

Post by scotty79 »

anu_gupta wrote: post #22
_b8r0 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course not, it's much easier to feel self-righteous boycotting one of the greatest living science fiction authors than boycotting the oil that funds this sort of thing. Gay marriage is legal in the US, and rightly so. Neither Orson Scott Card nor middle-eastern oil will change that.

> one of the greatest living science fiction authors Oh please. Ender's Game is a classic. The rest of his work is worse, and the recent Shadow stuff is execrable.

His work is surely uneven but he wrote some awesome things and that makes him great for me. I don't expect people I admire to consistently produce masterpieces. I'm greatful even if they managed to produced only one.

I also liked his A Planet Called Treason

Re: "Ender's Game" movie faces a boycott

#79

Post by Amadou »

jiggy2011 wrote: post #70
Amadou wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My approach has been that if it is easy to do, I had darn well better do it. To illustrate - since I was a teenager I realized that the war on drugs was manifestly wrong. I chose not to participate in any aspect of the war on drugs as best I could. When I was fresh out of college, most forms of employment required a drug test. So I did it, reluctantly, but I felt I could stand on my principles as a pauper or compromi…

The real problem with drug tests though is that those in a good position can refuse them, but those in a less advantageous position don't get so much choice.

I guess it wasn't exactly clear from the way I phrased it, but I'm not just refusing the tests, I'm refusing to contribute my labor to the betterment of companies that impose them on their employees.

If I were to encounter an employer willing to make an exception to their policy for me, I would have to consider the greater implications. I might accept such a job as long as I remained free to tell anyone and everyone that an exception had been made so as to undermine the policy going forwards. Maybe. Hasn't happened yet.

Re: "Ender's Game" movie faces a boycott

#80

Post by scotty79 »

sneak wrote: post #76
anonymous wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I first read the title, I thought they wanted me to boycott the movie because it wouldn't honour the book. Turns out it's because Orson Scott Card is an influential asshole who doesn't like gay people? I'm not sorry, and this is just petty poop-flinging. Hollywood as a whole is full of assholes and I don't see what makes this one special.

Some fraction of your ticket price will likely fund the oppression of others.

Doesn't it always?
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