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Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident

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Re: Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident

#261

Post by alxndr »

jlgreco wrote: post #134
chrischen wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've never been to China then. I've never been to any country where the drivers are more courteous to pedestrians than the USA.

Drivers are courteous to pedestrians to a fault in the north-west US. Sometimes several times a day I will be approaching (as a pedestrian) an intersection (double stop-sign), say 10 to 15 feet away, and a car will stop and refuse to move until I reach the intersection, step into it, and fully cross it. Contrast this with the east coast where a car will stop and pause for one second. If after that second nobody is in…

> Contrast this with the east coast where a car will stop...

You've seen cars stop on the east coast?!? Not me...

Re: Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident

#262

Post by smsm42 »

lutorm wrote: post #228
smsm42 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not every place on Earth looks like your immediate neighborhood. For example, large chunks of Silicon Valley (not the most remote or undeveloped place in the world) are effectively inaccessible other than by car - unless you are willing to spend 3 hours commuting in each direction and are ready to subjugate your whole life to extremely sparse and inconvenient schedule of public transportation. Like it or not, cars ar…

I think the implication was that we should make public transportation better along with decreasing the amounts of cars.

Well, of course, if you could make it better - sure, go ahead. Do you think I like driving 30 mins twice a day? I'd rather spend the same time in a bus reading a book. But I don't have such option and do not foresee it happening anytime soon. You can say "we should" as many times as you like, but in reality it's not happening - and I'm not sure it's even feasible to cover an area of San Jose size with adequate public transport and keep the costs reasonable. But if you know how to do it - sure, let your plan be known to the San Jose city council, I support it a lot. I'm sure amount of cars would decrease once you pull it off - I'd gladly give up my daily commute if I had an alternative. But not before the alternative is there.

Re: Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident

#263

Post by xradionut »

thwest wrote: post #29
akivabamberger wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this a joke? What part of this death is due to automobile worship?

No, this is not a joke. Having heavy motorized vehicles zooming around our urban landscape is incredibly dangerous and violent. Worse, the pilots are inattentive and feel entitled to the asphalt in front of them. Automobile worship has completely dominated city infrastructure, demanding that cyclists and pedestrians simply learn how to use a road designed for automobiles. Automobile worship has also reshaped how we'v…

If I could transport myself and goods without driving, I would. But in my present life/location, it's not possible. I could give a fuck about automobiles except for their utility.

Re: Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident

#264

Post by tptacek »

oinksoft wrote: post #242
tptacek wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't look like this tragedy had anything to do with respect for bicyclists; the driver, who could likely at minimum be charged with manslaughter, drove off the road to avoid traffic and fled the scene of the accident. I don't disagree with what I think is the spirit of your comment, which is that there's probably a policy response to this tragedy. To me, it highlights the all-to-lax nature of our moving violati…

I didn't intend to highlight lack of respect so much as lack of general awareness amongst motorists of the rights of bicyclists as road vehicles. In the worst cases, this manifests itself in more aggressive responses. This here was a case of negligence, not malice. Neither source linked from the article says that the driver went off-road, both say that Seth Vidal was traveling "on Hillandale Road," that he was "a bic…

"The accident apparently occurred after dark, when a driver swerved off the road to avoid traffic and ran into Seth’s bike from behind".

Re: Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident

#265

Post by curveship »

oinksoft wrote: post #64

The sad truth is that while bicycles should be respected as vehicles, they are given lip service at best in driver education and there is little attempt made at going after motorists who drive aggressively around them. As a result, you put yourself at great risk of life and limb when you ride on a road like this one: http://www.mapquest.com/?version=1.0&hk=6-LvU0mhA3 (Hillandale Rd, Durham, NC) I accomplish all of my…

That's not where Seth was hit. From the reports I've heard so far (I'm a Durhamite and knew Seth socially), he was hit on the south end of the block, where it's a totally different road: http://goo.gl/maps/DQxO6 .

That block of Hillandale Road changes so radically in one block for historical reasons: the narrow section you see above is just as it emerges from a golf course, and the city has been unable to expand that section of road, so I've been told, because the golf course owns the shoulders and has resisted efforts.

All the cyclists in town know it as a dangerous section, but are forced to use it as it's one of few routes over I85, the freeway visible in your mapquest link.

Re: Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident

#267

Post by alxndr »

resu_nimda wrote: post #253
alxndr wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The roads were built for cars. This is untrue. "The coming of the railways in the 1830s killed off the stage-coach trade; almost all rural roads reverted to low-level local use. Cyclists were the first group in a generation to use roads and were the first to push for high-quality sealed surfaces and were the first to lobby for national funding and leadership for roads. Without cyclists, motorists wouldn't have hit…

I mean, that's nice and all, but it seems to be purposely obtuse. Again, just look at the current infrastructure. The width of the roads, traffic laws, signs and signals, intersections, highways, etc. I guess you "got me" in that, at some point, road construction was driven by cyclists, but that pretty clearly shifted some time ago. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.

The prevailing notion that "roads are made for cars" is self-fulfilling, as people use it as justification for making roads further unsafe for bicycles (and other road users).

Re: Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident

#268

Post by silverbax88 »

matt__rose wrote: post #197
corin_ wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're driving a long and a bike pulls out suddenly in front of you, unless you have the attitude of "fuck it, just run them over" then yes, a bike can still be a massive threat to a car.

No, it can't. Not in any physical sense. If a car swerves and hits a cyclist at 30kph, the cyclist is almost certain to be injured, if not dead. If a bike swerves and hits a car, they might scratch the paint. When will the false equivalences end?

Actually, it absolutely can, in the same way that striking a deer in a car can kill the motorists. Horrifying, but true and dangerous.

Not to mention the fact that a cyclist at full speed can absolutely kill a person, especially a small person.

Any motorist driving irresponsibly should be ticketed and any cyclists doing the same should also be ticketed.

Re: Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident

#269

Post by baddox »

kylec wrote: post #245
gamache wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's appropriate to consider bicycles as "first-class vehicles" in all situations, namely in the dangerous situations you list (speed limits >~25mph, multiple automobile lanes, etc.). Driving a motor vehicle on a road is a privilege. This privilege is represented by a motor vehicle operator's license, which may be revoked by the state for a variety of reasons. Riding a bicycle on a non-Interstate public…

And yet Seth Vidal is dead, and the driver remains alive. In an ideal world bicycles are given equal respect and stature on the roads. In practice, however, riders have a lot more to lose in a collision with a car.

> In an ideal world bicycles are given equal respect and stature on the roads.

Since you mentioned "an ideal world," I'm going to completely disagree. I think that bicycles and automobiles sharing roads is, at best, a manageable but extremely dangerous situation. Like it or not, bicycles and automobiles behave very differently, and require their surrounding vehicles to behave very differently. In an ideal world, there would be separate thoroughfares for automobiles and bicycles, and neither would be allowed on the other (like we already mostly have for pedestrians)

Re: Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident

#270

Post by steveklabnik »

adrr wrote: post #142
malandrew wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In San Francisco, according to CSC 21202, the bicyclist is allowed full use of lanes. The important clause to pay attention to is clause (c). The most important part of that clause is the use of the term "substandard width lane", which although not defined in the statute, has been established via jurisprudence to be approximately 14-15 ft. Many many rightmost lanes in SF are not 14+ ft wide, meaning that on most road…

Santa Monica has the same rules. I biked to worked for two months straight, my car never left the garage until one day someone didn't like the fact i was in the middle of the lane. Accelerated at me, and then tried to run me off the road at 35+ mph on a small street. Tired of people honking at me or cutting me off so i quit riding my bike. Not worth my life. City really needs to take every 4th or 5th street and make…

This happened to me there too. Biking down Wilshire, where there's two lanes, no other traffic, person flew by me, honking and freaking out.
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