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Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident

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Re: Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident

#191

Post by ajross »

pdx wrote: post #172
ajross wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can surely hurt a pedestrian while riding on the sidewalk (or through a crosswalk, for that matter). You surely can not hurt them "as much as" a car in the traffic lanes will hurt a cyclist in a much faster collision with a much heavier object. That assertion is just silly.

As a father of toddlers, (3 and 5), I despise the attitude of many bicyclists on sidewalks and public paths. You think you can't seriously hurt somebody on a bike? It depends on the someone you hit. Slow down when you see a pedestrian, as there might be others that you don't see. Don't ring your little bell at them as you whip past at 20mph, just slow down and show some common courtesy like a real human person.

This doesn't seem to be responsive. Your kids (or mine), no matter how heart-tugging a debate example they may be, will still be hurt less from a collision with a bicycle than the cyclist will be from a collision with my car. To argue otherwise, as Yver did above, is silly and counterproductive.

Re: Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident

#192

Post by clarky07 »

ejs wrote: post #154
malandrew wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Citation. I mean I know it does happen, but I'm extremely skeptical of the use of the word "often" here.

http://www.enhancements.org/download/trb/1636-011.PDF "The most interesting result of the analysis was the finding that sidewalk cyclists have higher event rates on roads than nonsidewalk cyclists."

Nothing in that paper talks about people being killed as far as I could see. Higher event rates != higher deaths. Running into another bike was considered an event, but that's not generally deadly.

Re: Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident

#193

Post by tptacek »

oinksoft wrote: post #64

The sad truth is that while bicycles should be respected as vehicles, they are given lip service at best in driver education and there is little attempt made at going after motorists who drive aggressively around them. As a result, you put yourself at great risk of life and limb when you ride on a road like this one: http://www.mapquest.com/?version=1.0&hk=6-LvU0mhA3 (Hillandale Rd, Durham, NC) I accomplish all of my…

It doesn't look like this tragedy had anything to do with respect for bicyclists; the driver, who could likely at minimum be charged with manslaughter, drove off the road to avoid traffic and fled the scene of the accident.

I don't disagree with what I think is the spirit of your comment, which is that there's probably a policy response to this tragedy. To me, it highlights the all-to-lax nature of our moving violation enforcement laws; every American who gets behind the wheel (myself very much included) subjects their neighbors to tremendous risks, and the penalties and risk of detection don't create meaningful incentives.

Re: Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident

#194

Post by gamache »

drumdance wrote: post #180
gamache wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's appropriate to consider bicycles as "first-class vehicles" in all situations, namely in the dangerous situations you list (speed limits >~25mph, multiple automobile lanes, etc.). Driving a motor vehicle on a road is a privilege. This privilege is represented by a motor vehicle operator's license, which may be revoked by the state for a variety of reasons. Riding a bicycle on a non-Interstate public…

There's a middle ground. In Boulder at least, a bicyclist can be ticketed for running a red light, going the wrong way on one-way etc.

This is definitely true. Bicyclists on public roads have (most of) the same responsibilities as drivers, which means penalties for breaking the rules.

Re: Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident

#195

Post by aroch »

jowiar wrote: post #185
aroch wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Most cyclists have no trouble traveling at a speed greater than 25mph, even uphill I doubt that, maybe in burst/sprint but not sustained...Hell, the average top speeds in the Tour de France during the sprints is barely 25mph and those are top athletes. >but the last thing we need if we want to encourage bicycling is nanny-state policing of proper signaling and such. So we should enforce traffic laws on cars but not…

Be negligent on a bicycle and a vast majority of the life and limb you are risking is your own. Be negligent in a car and you're putting in mortal danger every other driver and cyclist on the road as well as every pedestrian in the vicinity. The difference between 25lb of metal powered by glutes and quads and 1.5 tons of metal with a tank of flammable liquid and a 200 hp engine is important.

Your point being? Driving or biking on the road makes you a vehicle, all vehicles follow the same set of laws. I don't care if your "I'm a bicyclist" superiority complex makes you think you're above the law; you're not.

Re: Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident

#196

Post by [deleted] »

shrikant wrote: post #177
oinksoft wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that a cyclist flaunting traffic laws should always be liable for accidents, but the last thing we need if we want to encourage bicycling is nanny-state policing of proper signaling and such. Any city that has resources for this ought to take a hard look at the size of their police force. Your idea of banning cycle traffic on >25mph roads is misguided. Most cyclists have no trouble traveling at a speed greate…

OT: you mean flouting traffic laws. "Flaunting" means to show off.

[deleted]

Re: Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident

#197

Post by matt__rose »

corin_ wrote: post #178
vanderZwan wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I tend to agree, but I can see both sides. Like I said in the other comment: a bike is never a threat to a car. A car is always a threat to a bike. While your points are valid, saying that that is looking at "both sides" is an inappropriate way of describing the situation.

If you're driving a long and a bike pulls out suddenly in front of you, unless you have the attitude of "fuck it, just run them over" then yes, a bike can still be a massive threat to a car.

No, it can't. Not in any physical sense. If a car swerves and hits a cyclist at 30kph, the cyclist is almost certain to be injured, if not dead. If a bike swerves and hits a car, they might scratch the paint. When will the false equivalences end?

Re: Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident

#198

Post by untog »

drumdance wrote: post #180
gamache wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's appropriate to consider bicycles as "first-class vehicles" in all situations, namely in the dangerous situations you list (speed limits >~25mph, multiple automobile lanes, etc.). Driving a motor vehicle on a road is a privilege. This privilege is represented by a motor vehicle operator's license, which may be revoked by the state for a variety of reasons. Riding a bicycle on a non-Interstate public…

There's a middle ground. In Boulder at least, a bicyclist can be ticketed for running a red light, going the wrong way on one-way etc.

There needs to be more of this. As a relatively new biker in NYC (since the bike sharing program launched) I've been amazed at the suicidal tendencies of my (non-bike share) brethren. At a red light? Just pedal out into the middle of the road to see if you can cross anyway. Going the wrong way? Sure!

Re: Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident

#199

Post by Eisbar »

UK residents - please consider signing the .gov.uk epetition [1] for the government to implement the "Get Britain Cycling Report" [2]. Report Summary [3].

The petition is close to 70,000 signatures and should be debated in parliament when it gets to 100,000.

RIP

[1] http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/49196 [2] http://allpartycycling.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/get-brita... [3] https://allpartycycling.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/get-brit...

Re: Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident

#200

Post by danielweber »

vanderZwan wrote: post #151
baddox wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The sad truth is that while bicycles should be respected as vehicles, I tend to agree, but I can see both sides. There is also very little (and, as far as I know, zero required) bicyclist education, and many bicyclists make little attempt to drive predictably and safely either out of boldness or ignorance. Similarly, while stricter rules and enforcement for automobile drivers is warranted, I think the same goes for…

> I tend to agree, but I can see both sides. Like I said in the other comment: a bike is never a threat to a car. A car is always a threat to a bike. While your points are valid, saying that that is looking at "both sides" is an inappropriate way of describing the situation.

Bikes are threats to pedestrians. I've never hit a pedestrian on a bike but I've come close. I've also been hit by a car while on a bike (at a low speed, enough to trash the bike but I was able to hop off in time) so I have sympathy here.
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