San Francisco, I Love You But You’re Bringing Me Down • Hacker News Board

Re: San Francisco, I Love You But You’re Bringing Me Down

#451

Post by nickv » Tue, Jul 09, 2013, 5:42 PM UTC

rdl wrote: post #424

nickv wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have to understand that nearly all cities were shitholes in 1989 until the Urban Revitalization of the late 90s. This wasn't an SF specific thing. NYC, for example, had over 1200 murders in 1992 (!!!) compared to last year's 414. SF's revitalization has more to do with that than with "tech" jobs. I know in the Hacker News echo-chamber its hard to think there's anything but Internet Tech in SF but it's got ALOT mo…

What caused the "urban revitalization"? Was it just that people who hadn't been around during the 1968-~1980 urban hell were finally in a position to be buying their first homes?

Honestly, I don't know so I'm going to speculate based on experiences. I think it's a generational thing. The younger generations seem to want density, to be around things, to not own a car. I think growing up in large suburban homes, there's been a genuine desire by younger people to move to cities and away from that lifestyle.

You can see this happen in many ways aside from city's becoming safer: Real estate cost increases in cities, The whole bike-movement is an element of it, NYU getting 44k applications, the growth of the Brooklyn "brand".

I think, generally, there's a real desire for an urban community with culture and shared experiences. I know I don't have anything more 'concrete' to back this up, but this is the general sentiment of my friends (in their late 20s to early 30s.)

Re: San Francisco, I Love You But You’re Bringing Me Down

#452

Post by nicholas73 » Tue, Jul 09, 2013, 6:18 PM UTC

glenra wrote: post #431

JonFish85 wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What, exactly, is "crazy" about it? As a renter, you don't control your own destiny. You're at the whim of your landlord. As a home-owner, or better yet, a property-owner, you have much more control over your living situation. Don't like the paint color? Change it. Don't like your stove? Get a new one. Want to plant some new flowers? Go for it. As a renter, you're going to be dealing with rents rising year over year.…

> Not to mention the fact that, if you're paying $1,000/mo for rent, at the end of the year, you have almost nothing to show for your $12,000. In a house/home, you have equity in said house. Suppose you buy a $300k house with a 15% downpayment. That means you spent $45k to GET the house. Now if the rent payments and the mortgage payment are both about the same, both spend $12k/year to keep their house, but the homeow…

Not to mention closing costs automatically costs 6%.

Re: San Francisco, I Love You But You’re Bringing Me Down

#453

Post by jquery » Tue, Jul 09, 2013, 9:34 PM UTC

api wrote: post #30

I've got a possibly great job offer on the table from SF/SV, but may turn it down. I'd love the city I'm sure, but after glancing around I've come to the conclusion that home ownership is unthinkable to anyone who hasn't had a cash-out event. The real estate market is certifiably, utterly bat-dookie insane. NYC is often considered more expensive, and Manhattan is certainly... well... Manhattan. But taken collectively…

> after glancing around I've come to the conclusion that home ownership is unthinkable to anyone who hasn't had a cash-out event.

Or they are a two-income family where both make good salaries. Then it's eminently thinkable, even advisable.

Re: San Francisco, I Love You But You’re Bringing Me Down

#454

Post by aet » Wed, Jul 10, 2013, 3:50 AM UTC

jlgreco wrote: post #177

31reasons wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The earthquake in 1906 nearly ruined the entire San Francisco. It can happen again at anytime. Limiting the building heights and number of housing is a precautionary measure. The best thing the SV tech community should do is realize the limitations and move out to other cities. LA/San Diego could be the great replacement/extension for SV.

Another earthquake should worry San Francisco no more than another fire should worry Chicago.

Wishful thinking..

Re: San Francisco, I Love You But You’re Bringing Me Down

#455

Post by aet » Wed, Jul 10, 2013, 3:54 AM UTC

nawitus wrote: post #426

bubbleRefuge wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taxation can alleviate that. Provide tax relief to owner-occupants with children. Tax the shit out of non-occupant owners.

And why woulnd't that tax transfer to rent prices?

It would transfer.

Re: San Francisco, I Love You But You’re Bringing Me Down

#456

Post by cpeterso » Wed, Jul 10, 2013, 5:08 PM UTC

liveinoakland wrote: post #428

cpeterso wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rockridge and Piedmont have crime, too. I live in Rockridge and follow the crime watch mailing lists. People get mugged in broad daylight at the BART station and just a couple years ago was a rash of restaurant "take-over" robberies. Crime follows the money.

Mugged in broad daylight at Rockridge BART? I'm sorry I just don't believe this.

Here's a list of recent Rockridge crimes, including a 5:15 PM robbery in front of Cactus Taqueria:

http://spotcrime.com/ca/oakland/rockridge

Re: San Francisco, I Love You But You’re Bringing Me Down

#457

Post by esperluette » Wed, Jul 17, 2013, 11:24 PM UTC

ahh wrote: post #427

esperluette wrote: post #423

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe you should try talking to technically-inclined women? We do exist and I would probably pepper you with tons of questions about what you do if we met at a party. (Of course, I'm married ...) Why not say something like "I make computers go harder, better, faster, stronger?" Funny, doesn't make you sound like you're apologizing for what you do, and if someone's really interested ("how does that work?") you can fol…

I don't do this because technically-inclined women are rare and I'm not attractive enough to cut off 95% of the possible partners out there. Or put more bluntly, you wouldn't pepper me with tons of questions at a party, you'd pepper my colleague M, who has a more outsider-visible job and is dashingly handsome. I have to make do with his leftovers, and I can't be picky about them having technical expertise. Also, wome…

Sorry, I only know what would work on me (and my friends). Didn't think I was that much of an outlier ...

Re: San Francisco, I Love You But You’re Bringing Me Down

#458

Post by gknoy » Thu, Jul 18, 2013, 6:07 PM UTC

rapind wrote: post #438

enraged_camel wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>If I plan to own the house for multiple years, a large chunk of my money goes to equity: I'm banking away value for later that you will get back when you sell the house. (Assuming the market doesn't go pear-shape: a big assumption.) In contrast, money you spend on rent is a pure cost, and irrevocably lost. This logic is fundamentally flawed. Contrary to the popular conventional wisdom (repeated by our Baby Boomer p…

The epilogue is using a pretty specific comparison, which is a little out of whack in my experience. Rent / Mortgage comparisons are usually a little closer. That being said, I completely agree with this article. The most important point is that buying is often worthwhile due to government meddling... it's difficult for other investments to compete with a house ownership appreciation that's tax free.

I agree -- I'm really glad that enraged_camel linked that article. It makes some very good points, and mentions various tax benefits and the like that I had forgotten about.

I think the best lesson from the epilogue is that your mileage may vary. Whether it's financially better to rent or buy depends on the market where you want to live. I had implied this, but not nearly as well. It's critical to take that into account when weighing the additional value you get from owning (namely that you can do what you want TO the property). Sometimes that's worth paying extra for, sometimes it's not, and it's ultimately up to you.

I also liked the commentary about mobility that people made here. It's very true: selling a house and then actually buying one is a dance I still don't understand how to do smoothly.