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San Francisco, I Love You But You’re Bringing Me Down

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Re: San Francisco, I Love You But You’re Bringing Me Down

#371

Post by prostoalex »

gknoy wrote: post #198
enraged_camel wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>I'd love the city I'm sure, but after glancing around I've come to the conclusion that home ownership is unthinkable to anyone who hasn't had a cash-out event. I've never understood this crazy, if not outright insane obsession with home ownership. Why does everyone want to tie significant amounts of their lifetime earnings into physical property that historically has had very low appreciation in value? It's like pe…

As someone who recently (this past year) went from being a renter to a homeowner, and had previously been a home owner for several years, it's not all rational... but here are some of the reasons. I don't have to worry about the rent going up every year / six-months. If I plan to own the house for multiple years, a large chunk of my money goes to equity: I'm banking away value for later that you will get back when yo…

I and my bank also own a house (it's more theirs than mine at the moment, but they let me inhabit it for now), but I think financial benefits are not as lopsided for homeowners. You typically incur a host of new payments:

- property taxes (1.15% in Santa Clara county), adds up if you own for more than 5 years

- HOA fees if any, typically responsibility of a landlord in rent environment

- one needs to buy/install/maintain appliances

- overall maintenance cost that will vary widely depending on the age and location of the house

While I don't disagree with you, home ownership is not for everybody and definitely limits one's options as far as job location, etc.

Re: San Francisco, I Love You But You’re Bringing Me Down

#372

Post by mawk »

bifrost wrote: post #51

As an actual native to San Francisco, I think I can put a few things into perspective. Its always been expensive to live here, it doesn't have much to do with tech, it has more to do with SF being a center for finance AND technology. That said, having a mortgage lower than your rent is true for many people who bought at "the right time" rather than at the peak of demand. Demand is outstripping supply due to the insan…

y are there so many douches in SF?

Re: San Francisco, I Love You But You’re Bringing Me Down

#373

Post by mawk »

forrestthewoods wrote: post #138
api wrote: post #30

I've got a possibly great job offer on the table from SF/SV, but may turn it down. I'd love the city I'm sure, but after glancing around I've come to the conclusion that home ownership is unthinkable to anyone who hasn't had a cash-out event. The real estate market is certifiably, utterly bat-dookie insane. NYC is often considered more expensive, and Manhattan is certainly... well... Manhattan. But taken collectively…

San Francisco real-estate is absurdly corrupt. From 2004 to 2007 only an average of 2,220 units were built. From 2008 to 2012 a mere 1,710 units were built [1]. New construction has been impossible. It looks like it's picking up slightly, but not nearly as much as it would in a fair market. [1] http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/S-F-apartment-construc...

Massengil tax.

Re: San Francisco, I Love You But You’re Bringing Me Down

#375

Post by patio11 »

ahh wrote: post #364
patio11 wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The last time a young lady asked me what I did for a living I did the Old Spice guy impersonation and mentioned I was getting flown abroad to do it for an audience. She married me, so I now have the luxury of not caring anymore what people think of my answers, but they're generally some flavor of "I run a company which does X", where X is one thing I think they'll find interesting. Possible Xes include "helped teach…

Sadly, I don't run a company, and I'm not in charge of anything high status or visible. I do performance optimization and design threading infrastructure to dramatically improve the experience of writing high performance system software. I think this is pretty valuable, but there's no way to put it that seems high status to non-computer people. Should I just quit and start a company selling shit because that'll look…

Can you describe that in terms of an important system, somewhere, which would not exist but for your contributions? If so, more on that story, less on the technical detail. If on the other hand none of your work ever gets used in anything important, then that's a non-BSy reason to change what you're working on. (Believe me -- been there, done that.)

Re: San Francisco, I Love You But You’re Bringing Me Down

#376

Post by 7Figures2Commas »

LanceH wrote: post #357
gdilla wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, if you buy, your cost of moving is WAY higher. unless you can know to a high degree of certainty you're staying put for 10+ years at least, renting keeps you mobile. Not everyone can telecommute. Many people should be more mobile to go where jobs are, and that's easier when you're renting.

If you rent, the cost of staying may be completely out of your control. Indeed, it may not even be possible. For those of us who want to stay in one place, this is a really good thing. If I want to invest in a workshop in the house, that's a good thing. My house is mine, and some of the things I have here just aren't available to rent.

> If you rent, the cost of staying may be completely out of your control. Indeed, it may not even be possible.

That's arguably a feature, not a bug. Rents generally don't skyrocket without cause, and they usually don't skyrocket in isolation. If you're living in an area where rents are increasing rapidly and your income isn't keeping pace with the cost of living (of which rent is typically a substantial component), you probably have very good reason to consider whether you're in the optimal location.

On the other hand, there are people fortunate enough to have purchased a home in an area that has done well since their purchase but who still struggle with an increased cost of living. You see this a lot with people who are on a fixed income, or who bought in an area that has experienced a boom. Yes, these individuals might be able to sell their homes at substantial profit, but they'll still have to move once they sell.

> My house is mine, and some of the things I have here just aren't available to rent.

Your house isn't yours unless and until it's paid off. This may not apply to you specifically, but a lot of people who call themselves homeowners are really homeowners-to-be in about a decade or two or three.

Re: San Francisco, I Love You But You’re Bringing Me Down

#377

Post by cwilson »

princess3000 wrote: post #229
cwilson wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was born and raised in Austin and used to be one of those people who said they would never leave. I fought very hard to make the tech scene in Austin "happen" for years. There are multiple reasons it's taken so long to get to where it is now, which I won't go into here (not relevant to the OP's topic), but one of the main reasons I left to move to the Bay Area is the lack of hustle, or the lack of need to hustle, i…

I know this probably wasn't your intention but this entire post makes Austin look incredibly attractive.

I certainly wasn't trying to make Austin look unattractive to anyone who thinks they might enjoy that lifestyle. Depending on your stage in life and needs Austin is likely one of the best places in America to live right now (assuming you don't mind 115 degree heat during the peak of the summer). I absolutely love visiting my family there and often spend weeks at a time in Airbnb's when I visit.

All I was trying to do was show another extreme, in contrast to the OP's and situation in San Francisco right now. Some people absolutely love San Francisco and probably thrive in the tech scene here, but that doesn't mean it's great for everyone or every startup.

Re: San Francisco, I Love You But You’re Bringing Me Down

#378

Post by hoov »

cookiecaper wrote: post #326
hoov wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've never understood this crazy, if not outright insane obsession with home ownership. And, I don't understand why so many people on HN seem to think it's insane. I'd like to be more in control of my environment. I don't want to be at the whims of a landlord, particularly in the future, when I have children. I want a place that is mine to customize as I see fit. I don't want to have to ask if I can paint, I want t…

Neither option is actually insane, but the prevalent opinion that renting is an unacceptable waste of money that should only be utilized as a last resort is not correct. I don't live anywhere near SF and I rent because I got a good deal on the monthly payment, I have a great landlord who fixes all issues promptly (which is awesome for me, since I am not much of a fix-it guy) (and relatedly, I'm not that interested in…

I agree with everything that you're saying.

I live in a duplex in the Bay Area, and I know for a fact that both tenants pay ~65% of the monthly mortgage. The landlord is making a healthy profit every month -- that's the real reason that I have an issue with renting.

That being said, I will not buy in the Bay Area. I'll move back to Boston and buy a condo or house there. Parts of the Bay Area and the Boston area benefit from proximity to universities, and see much less fluctuation in the real estate market. Personally, I miss seasons -- so, I'm not going to spend more money for "better weather".

Re: San Francisco, I Love You But You’re Bringing Me Down

#379

Post by Woost »

mcguire wrote: post #286
nightski wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maintaining a home can cost more than you might imagine. The reason it is profitable for landlords (at least for apartments) is due to the fact there many are paying rent within the same building (economy of scale). Second, taxes are significant. Where I live (Fargo, ND) property taxes equal a rent payment alone. So it almost makes more sense (monetarily) to pay rent and invest the extra money into something more luc…

Could you explain why you think you, as a renter, don't pay property taxes?

Probably because it's split between everyone renting in the building, and while the tax is higher, it's not so much higher that you end up effectively paying the same amount.

At least, that's my guess.

Re: San Francisco, I Love You But You’re Bringing Me Down

#380

Post by enneff »

kenster07 wrote: post #331

1) Leaving sf in any part, due to your perception of the reaction of random women at bars, to your profession, blows me away. There are plenty of people in the city who also admire your profession, including many single women. And quite frankly, there are more important things in life anyway. 2) People who feel 'guilty' about getting decent salaries are missing the big picture. You are now an allocator of wealth. You…

Who are you to decide what is important in the author's life?
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