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San Francisco, I Love You But You’re Bringing Me Down

tomdale.net

211–220 of 458 posts

Re: San Francisco, I Love You But You’re Bringing Me Down

#211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Modern building codes prevented that from happening again in '89. If you think earthquakes are a legitimate reason to limit density, Tokyo and Osaka would like to talk to you.

I worked in Seismology related field for 8 years and visited Tokyo construction companies to see how they build and retrofit existing buildings to make them earthquake proof (to some extent). Let me tell you, they are way more prepared for the earthquakes than SF is.

So SF can't have nice things because they currently do not have nice things?

Re: San Francisco, I Love You But You’re Bringing Me Down

#212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The main reason why people don't want new residential development is because it will feed into gentrification and push people out because they can no longer afford to live in SF. NYC has been and is going through this problem right now and it is not pretty. EDIT: There are a lot of comments about increasing supply as a way to make housing/apartments cheaper in SF. This is not at all well demonstrated, as in NYC new r…

How does not building new residential units help prevent gentrification? Last I checked a 1BR in the Mission is approaching $3K. It would seem like gentrification is happening whether SF likes it or not. In fact it seems like gentrification is accelerated , not slowed or prevented, by this housing policy. Having lived in SF, and now live in NYC, IMO NYC is dealing with the problem of gentrification far better than SF…

> How does not building new residential units help prevent gentrification?

The new construction makes no guarantee and a reduction in real estate prices. So long as the demand is very high, prices will continue to rise even with new construction. This is essentially what NYC is going through now, there isn't enough construction that could possibly keep pace with demand and its unlikely that there could be without a collapse in demand.

> Having lived in SF, and now live in NYC, IMO NYC is dealing with the problem of gentrification far better than SF. The transport infrastructure here means that people can be displaced farther but still maintain economic viability. You may be 3 stops further further on the train line, but you're still getting to work.

This is changing as we speak. The outermost parts of Brooklyn are gentrifying, esp. in places that are predominantly black and/or hispanic. Those places are already on the extreme edge of subway mass transit, so once people living there are displaced they will have very little recourse. Queens is also beginning to go through this phase although its still just getting started.

All of this happens while wages remain the same, esp. for low wage or minimum wage workers. These people won't be able to stay as the prices inflate and I'm not eager to see more tenement style apt. crowding due to the cost.

Re: San Francisco, I Love You But You’re Bringing Me Down

#213
post #185

I wouldn't underestimate the effects a lack of sunlight will have on you. This coming from a part of the country that receives a little bit less sunlight that Seattle (Pittsburgh area). Seasonal depression can really make life suck. I'm also probably a little bit upset because it's been raining for something like 12 days straight.

I'm a native Oregonian - born and raised in the Willamette valley. The weather made me want to get the hell out, though. It's not that it rains that much, it's just that it's gray and bleak so often. During the winter, it's usually around 5C or maybe up to 10C (that's about 40-50F). The cold and drizzly weather is absolutely miserable if you like the outdoors, because you can't really do much. Too warm for snow and "…

That's pretty much Pittsburgh summer weather too. Sunshine is a rarity even in the summer. It's always grey and cloudy. Although it gets cold enough for snow but I don't enjoy snow like I did when I was a kid.

Re: San Francisco, I Love You But You’re Bringing Me Down

#214
post #76
post #30

I've got a possibly great job offer on the table from SF/SV, but may turn it down. I'd love the city I'm sure, but after glancing around I've come to the conclusion that home ownership is unthinkable to anyone who hasn't had a cash-out event. The real estate market is certifiably, utterly bat-dookie insane. NYC is often considered more expensive, and Manhattan is certainly... well... Manhattan. But taken collectively…

> NYC is often considered more expensive, and Manhattan is certainly... well... Manhattan. But taken collectively the NYC metro area is actually much more affordable. You can find places to live that are nice, friendly to someone older than 25-30, and at least sanely priced. It's crazy, isn't it? I was looking at housing prices recently, for places within a 30-35 minute train commute of work (I refuse to make a car p…

What nice Palo Alto restaurants are in strip malls? Most stuff is near University or California Ave. The only thing in Palo Alto I really think of as anything _like_ a strip mall is the Stanford shopping center, but that's more of a mall-mall, and the "nice" restaurants there are the big chain restaurants. Maybe the Fry's too, I guess, but there are no restaurants in that one.

Re: San Francisco, I Love You But You’re Bringing Me Down

#215
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Specifically on the subject of transportation, many wealthy tech companies have deployed private buses that benefit only their employees and not the community. I don't think it's evil by any means, merely rational (at least in the short-term), but also still a missed opportunity to strengthen the community by covering employees' public transit passes, encouraging employees to live closer to work, or moving work close…

Well there must have been an underlying reason why companies would go out of their way to invest in their own transportation system than invest in the one that already exists. Maybe they were met with resistance? What is this resistance?

Also, companies locate in places not remotely near public transit-like Facebook's new campus in Menlo Park, its not remotely near Caltrain. I remember taking the light rail along Java Drive every day for two years, wondering why more companies didn't decide to relocate near public transit, instead of in the outer most parts of suburbia.

Re: San Francisco, I Love You But You’re Bringing Me Down

#216
Say it with me: San Francisco is NOT the same as the Bay Area.

No, most of us wouldn't be able to afford a decent home in SF proper. But SF is just one city in a large metro area, with plenty of places you would and could want to own a home. Those of you who are 20-something: the day is coming, sooner than you'd imagine, when you're going to want to raise kids. And unless you've knocked the ball out of the park and are worth $20 million, you're not going to want to raise your kids in SF anyway.

if nobody who hasn't already made it can afford to live there what happens then?

You can afford it. It's an expensive area for sure, but there is much more to the Bay Area than "Silicon Valley" (whatever that means nowdays) and SF. I see this attitude a lot among recent "immigrants": this myopic view, apparently based on experience in other, very different metro areas, that there is One Big City and a few "suburbs." Things aren't like that here, and the reason you feel so frustrated is that you barely understand the place you live.

The "great" schools in the Bay Area are pretty much exclusively in places with $1m+ house prices

Wrong. For e.g., Pleasanton has (arguably) the best public schools in the Bay Area, and you don't need to pay $1 million for a house. But you've barely heard of it, because the only places your friends talk about are Redwood Shores, Mountain View, and SF, right? Expand your understanding.

San Francisco real-estate is absurdly corrupt.

So don't live there. It's just one city in the Bay Area. See above.

giving me the ability to pursue my own dream projects for more of the time. SF and SV were built on that, and it's not possible there anymore unless you've got big investors.

Of course it's possible, and people do it all the time. More than ever, you do not need Big VC Cash to bootstrap a good startup. You could theoretically do it anywhere, but the tech-oriented population combined with the free-thinking culture will come in handy if/when your company grows.

Re: San Francisco, I Love You But You’re Bringing Me Down

#217
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[deleted]

> 1. Build more 2. Watch prices go up I have my doubts about this. I would be interested to see evidence that you can actually drive prices down by increasing housing supply. Because when I've been in a position to watch some dramatic housing supply buildouts in a few areas, my observation has been that generally been that the owners price (at least) somewhat above market rates for existing housing -- after all, it's…

AFAIK you can reduce housing price through new building, but most places that can do this expand horizontally outward into undeveloped spaces. This creates the sprawl effect, though, which has its own issues. As for cities, I'm not aware of a city successfully creating affordable housing through new construction and renovation.

Re: San Francisco, I Love You But You’re Bringing Me Down

#218

I wouldn't underestimate the effects a lack of sunlight will have on you. This coming from a part of the country that receives a little bit less sunlight that Seattle (Pittsburgh area). Seasonal depression can really make life suck. I'm also probably a little bit upset because it's been raining for something like 12 days straight.

Living in Oregon two winters ago I went to a new docter who did some blood work and thought I had an infection so tested me for hepatitus, mono, etc. He through in a vitamin Dtest and that was it. He put me on megadose vit D and things got better. Sunlamps or vitamin D adapt to low sunlight.

Re: San Francisco, I Love You But You’re Bringing Me Down

#219
post #30

I've got a possibly great job offer on the table from SF/SV, but may turn it down. I'd love the city I'm sure, but after glancing around I've come to the conclusion that home ownership is unthinkable to anyone who hasn't had a cash-out event. The real estate market is certifiably, utterly bat-dookie insane. NYC is often considered more expensive, and Manhattan is certainly... well... Manhattan. But taken collectively…

>>I'd love the city I'm sure, but after glancing around I've come to the conclusion that home ownership is unthinkable to anyone who hasn't had a cash-out event. I've never understood this crazy, if not outright insane obsession with home ownership. Why does everyone want to tie significant amounts of their lifetime earnings into physical property that historically has had very low appreciation in value? It's like pe…

> I've never understood this crazy, if not outright insane obsession with home ownership.

And, I don't understand why so many people on HN seem to think it's insane. I'd like to be more in control of my environment. I don't want to be at the whims of a landlord, particularly in the future, when I have children.

I want a place that is mine to customize as I see fit. I don't want to have to ask if I can paint, I want to be able to pick my own appliances, I want to be able to tear down walls if I want.

Some people are homebodies, and some are not. I don't understand why people get so worked up and insist that their personal tastes are correct. To me, renting is insane. To you, owning is insane. Let's just agree to disagree.

Re: San Francisco, I Love You But You’re Bringing Me Down

#220

I don't understand why the author would move to Portland when we've got our own affordable, culturally rich, tech-friendly cities in the East Bay. Come to Oakland. It's beautiful here. The weather is better than San Francisco, you can ride your bicycle anywhere, public transit is good, and it's easy to get to SF as well as Silicon Valley (which I do regularly). There's no need to leave the entire Bay Area just becaus…

EXACTLY. But so many of these transplants have this simplistic idea about the Bay Area, that it's SV and SF and that's about it. Oakland has an awesome tech scene (ever hear of Pandora?), and there are many, many more wonderful places to live.
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