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San Francisco, I Love You But You’re Bringing Me Down

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Re: San Francisco, I Love You But You’re Bringing Me Down

#201

Post by antitrust »

foobarbazqux wrote: post #86
api wrote: post #30

I've got a possibly great job offer on the table from SF/SV, but may turn it down. I'd love the city I'm sure, but after glancing around I've come to the conclusion that home ownership is unthinkable to anyone who hasn't had a cash-out event. The real estate market is certifiably, utterly bat-dookie insane. NYC is often considered more expensive, and Manhattan is certainly... well... Manhattan. But taken collectively…

> real estate hyperinflation in general is a social ill that deserves to be tackled directly as such. How do you stop house prices from going up? You can't put a cap on property values without turning bidding into a lottery and screwing owners out of asset appreciation. You could make it easier to afford expensive houses by increasing the money supply, but our interest rates have been pegged at effectively zero for f…

> How do you stop house prices from going up?

Don't concentrate outrageous salaries in one urban area?

Re: San Francisco, I Love You But You’re Bringing Me Down

#202

Post by king_jester »

DannyBee wrote: post #77
king_jester wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both of those things are bad in general for cities. However, OP expressed doubt that increased presence of wealthy residents couldn't be anything but good for a city when clearly it is not so obvious.

Except that when it related to san francisco, some of the things on that wikipedia page are directly contradictory to the point i think parent was trying to make: IE "When wealthy people move into low-income working-class neighborhoods, the resulting class conflict sometimes involves vandalism and arson targeting the property of the gentrifiers. During the dot-com boom of the late 1990s, the gentrification of San Fra…

The wiki article on gentrification goes over some of the basic causes and effects that can occur, to that end the movement of wealthy people into places that were affordable to those with less causes displacement. To that end, wealthy people play a part in the systemic issues that cause class disparities and change and ultimately harm the makeup of existing communities.

Re: San Francisco, I Love You But You’re Bringing Me Down

#204

Post by tippytop »

api wrote: post #99
RKoutnik wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My job's in SOMA, a bit closer to Alameda than Mountain View. MV is probably one of the worst places, price-wise. You probably won't find budget housing near there, especially with a family/small child. Aging* millionaires have driven housing prices through the roof anywhere there's a good school system. * SV "aging", in this case, having kids.

Heh. I also hear that the SV school districts are not up to what you'd expect for a region with >$1mil house prices.

Public systems have been gutted by the private schools.

Re: San Francisco, I Love You But You’re Bringing Me Down

#205

Post by JPKab »

king_jester wrote: post #11
DanBlake wrote: post #8

The reason for San Francisco's high rent/home price is very simple, despite how others like to complicate it more: 1: Its desirable for most people to live here. Possibly the most desirable place in the USA, depending on your tastes. As a result, people are willing to pay more to live here. There are jobs, culture, food, art and much more all in this great city. 2: Rent Control. I wont get too much into it, but my ta…

The main reason why people don't want new residential development is because it will feed into gentrification and push people out because they can no longer afford to live in SF. NYC has been and is going through this problem right now and it is not pretty. EDIT: There are a lot of comments about increasing supply as a way to make housing/apartments cheaper in SF. This is not at all well demonstrated, as in NYC new r…

If rents are going up, you have gentrification. End of story. If rents are going up at ridiculously high rates, you have hyper-gentrification.

San Francisco can pick one or the other, but it can't opt out of the basic laws of supply and demand. ANY, and I mean ANY attempt at enforcing affordable rent for a particular income group will have unintended consequences that will either result in less properties being rented, or more rental properties instead being sold to the super-affluent as single family residences.

Or, you can just accept reality and build new, denser developments which will, yes, probably price out the poorest.

As a former construction worker who lived in Asheville, North Carolina (a Portland type city which has attracted tons of hipsters and trust-fund assholes who have driven up rents) I know what its like to have to move because my rent got jacked up. Instead of demanding the government allow me to afford a place to live, I accepted reality and moved the fuck on. I've since moved, worked my way up to making a decent salary, and one day (soon) I will move back and buy the house I got booted out of.

The notion that one person has a "right" to rent a place at a given price is in direct conflict with the "right" of another person to rent that same room for a higher price.

Rent control and "fair housing" policies benefit people like the majority of my family members. My family members, for the most part, are excellent at doing what they did the day before, the week before, the year before. If something begins to disrupt their routine, they complain about the disruption rather than changing their routine. They are poor, and this attitude is a big reason why. Rent control/fair housing policies primarily benefit people like my family.

Re: San Francisco, I Love You But You’re Bringing Me Down

#206

Post by king_jester »

crusso wrote: post #136
king_jester wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The wealthy tech people aren't the ones ruining San Francisco. Start here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gentrification

The gentrification complaint always seems hollow to me. There's nothing cooler than seeing some run-down urban area transformed into a place that's more successful and vibrant through renovation and revitalization. Some people may find that the environment outpaces their income or lifestyle... okay. Record companies found that technology outpaced their business model. The changes are good regardless what the curmudge…

> There's nothing cooler than seeing some run-down urban area transformed into a place that's more successful and vibrant through renovation and revitalization.

This change almost always coincides with a displacement of people, esp. existing communities of those with lower incomes or communities inhabited mostly by people of color. What exactly is cool about the destruction of a standing community that is caused by issues of systemic class and racial inequalities?

Re: San Francisco, I Love You But You’re Bringing Me Down

#207

Post by 31reasons »

natrius wrote: post #175
31reasons wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The earthquake in 1906 nearly ruined the entire San Francisco. It can happen again at anytime. Limiting the building heights and number of housing is a precautionary measure. The best thing the SV tech community should do is realize the limitations and move out to other cities. LA/San Diego could be the great replacement/extension for SV.

Modern building codes prevented that from happening again in '89. If you think earthquakes are a legitimate reason to limit density, Tokyo and Osaka would like to talk to you.

I worked in Seismology related field for 8 years and visited Tokyo construction companies to see how they build and retrofit existing buildings to make them earthquake proof (to some extent). Let me tell you, they are way more prepared for the earthquakes than SF is.

Re: San Francisco, I Love You But You’re Bringing Me Down

#208

Post by mahyarm »

api wrote: post #30

I've got a possibly great job offer on the table from SF/SV, but may turn it down. I'd love the city I'm sure, but after glancing around I've come to the conclusion that home ownership is unthinkable to anyone who hasn't had a cash-out event. The real estate market is certifiably, utterly bat-dookie insane. NYC is often considered more expensive, and Manhattan is certainly... well... Manhattan. But taken collectively…

Vancouver, Canada is even worse, and there is no local millionaire machine and a good chunk of the wealthiest people in the world living there.

Re: San Francisco, I Love You But You’re Bringing Me Down

#209

Post by danielweber »

enraged_camel wrote: post #164
api wrote: post #30

I've got a possibly great job offer on the table from SF/SV, but may turn it down. I'd love the city I'm sure, but after glancing around I've come to the conclusion that home ownership is unthinkable to anyone who hasn't had a cash-out event. The real estate market is certifiably, utterly bat-dookie insane. NYC is often considered more expensive, and Manhattan is certainly... well... Manhattan. But taken collectively…

>>I'd love the city I'm sure, but after glancing around I've come to the conclusion that home ownership is unthinkable to anyone who hasn't had a cash-out event. I've never understood this crazy, if not outright insane obsession with home ownership. Why does everyone want to tie significant amounts of their lifetime earnings into physical property that historically has had very low appreciation in value? It's like pe…

Both renting and owning have risks. There is no such thing as a risk-free world. You can decide which kinds of risks you can more tolerate, though.

Re: San Francisco, I Love You But You’re Bringing Me Down

#210

Post by CamperBob2 »

king_jester wrote: post #11
DanBlake wrote: post #8

The reason for San Francisco's high rent/home price is very simple, despite how others like to complicate it more: 1: Its desirable for most people to live here. Possibly the most desirable place in the USA, depending on your tastes. As a result, people are willing to pay more to live here. There are jobs, culture, food, art and much more all in this great city. 2: Rent Control. I wont get too much into it, but my ta…

The main reason why people don't want new residential development is because it will feed into gentrification and push people out because they can no longer afford to live in SF. NYC has been and is going through this problem right now and it is not pretty. EDIT: There are a lot of comments about increasing supply as a way to make housing/apartments cheaper in SF. This is not at all well demonstrated, as in NYC new r…

The main reason why people don't want new residential development is because it will feed into gentrification and push people out because they can no longer afford to live in SF

Sheer lunacy.

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