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San Francisco, I Love You But You’re Bringing Me Down

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Re: San Francisco, I Love You But You’re Bringing Me Down

#141

Post by dyno12345 »

foobarbazqux wrote: post #86
api wrote: post #30

I've got a possibly great job offer on the table from SF/SV, but may turn it down. I'd love the city I'm sure, but after glancing around I've come to the conclusion that home ownership is unthinkable to anyone who hasn't had a cash-out event. The real estate market is certifiably, utterly bat-dookie insane. NYC is often considered more expensive, and Manhattan is certainly... well... Manhattan. But taken collectively…

> real estate hyperinflation in general is a social ill that deserves to be tackled directly as such. How do you stop house prices from going up? You can't put a cap on property values without turning bidding into a lottery and screwing owners out of asset appreciation. You could make it easier to afford expensive houses by increasing the money supply, but our interest rates have been pegged at effectively zero for f…

> How do you stop house prices from going up?

Allow people to actually build things, rather than insisting that 100 year old, wood-framed 3 story split level houses and no new ones are the perfect housing solution for everyone forever.

Re: San Francisco, I Love You But You’re Bringing Me Down

#142

Post by pdenya »

greghinch wrote: post #112
jaysonelliot wrote: post #60

I don't understand why the author would move to Portland when we've got our own affordable, culturally rich, tech-friendly cities in the East Bay. Come to Oakland. It's beautiful here. The weather is better than San Francisco, you can ride your bicycle anywhere, public transit is good, and it's easy to get to SF as well as Silicon Valley (which I do regularly). There's no need to leave the entire Bay Area just becaus…

I don't mean this to play into stereotypes etc, but just as a matter of experience, every single person I know who's lived in Oakland for any significant amount of time (say 1 year or more), over the past 5 years, has been robbed at gunpoint at least once, usually while walking within a few blocks of their home. It's not a huge sample, I probably know half a dozen people/couples who live/have lived there. But the fac…

East Bay is huge and the BART is fast. You could live in Walnut Creek, Fremont, etc and have a less than 25 min train ride to Oakland. You really can't write off the whole east bay because some of Oakland has a high crime rate.

Re: San Francisco, I Love You But You’re Bringing Me Down

#143

Post by dr_ »

Honestly, it is the tech mecca of the world, so what would one expect? If you move elsewhere, like Portland, and if you hope the tech community continues to grow there - then eventually wouldn't you be hearing about series A rounds in the coffee shops there as well? And about home ownership being the "American Dream"....the jury is still out on that one. It seems more like the "American Debt". Unless you have a family with children, and want a place for them to grow in to with good school systems and all, there's really no need to jump in to home ownership. The first several years you are mostly paying interest, so you're not building equity. Not too much mention all the money you've put down already. So unless you plan on living there for the long haul, just rent. Having a reasonably priced roof over your head should be part of the American Dream, not necessarily home ownership.

Re: San Francisco, I Love You But You’re Bringing Me Down

#144

Post by mc32 »

rdl wrote: post #12
RyanZAG wrote: post #6

Doesn't seem like a great solution. If the tech guys leave SF, it would be like Detroit. SF and tech are now linked in the way Detroit and cars were. If you try pull the tech out, you'll be left with a husk fighting over crumbs. I don't even live in SF and this is clear to me. Or maybe it's clear to me because I don't live in SF?

I think even sans the tech industry, SF would still be a desirable enough place for people to live that it wouldn't have much of a problem. Even clearer if tech just remained in Silicon Valley; plenty of people would live in SF and commute. Even just finance is probably strong enough to support SF. Or, like Vancouver, lots of people from Asia. The tolerant/hippie/gay/etc. angle might be enough as well.

SF in '89, before tech started hitting, was not a pretty place. The Dirty Harry movies of the 70s, I think, were inspired to some extent by the decaying city. Technology breathed life into the Bay Area (San Jose was not much better back then either).

Re: San Francisco, I Love You But You’re Bringing Me Down

#145

Post by abat »

johnward wrote: post #36
zzzeek wrote: post #21

Move to New York City. Your uppity tech salary will again be paltry peanuts compared to the all the hedge fund guys that "turn the market upside down" here.

I imagine wall street conversations being something like "Coder: I make 200k. Trader: Oh me too. Per day"

No, just comments about wasting 1K on alcohol in a single night.

Re: San Francisco, I Love You But You’re Bringing Me Down

#146

Post by jedmeyers »

fingerprinter wrote: post #18

My wife and I made a very conscious decision to NOT move to SF when we were looking to move back to the US from Australia. Frankly, SF and the whole valley were not where we wanted to raise our three kids (6, 2.5 and newborn). Doing cost comparisons, quality of life and education we just couldn't justify SF over other places. This is, by all accounts, a career limiting move for me (I'm in tech, but I work remote righ…

It will be nice to see your comparison of the cost of living between Bay Area and, let's say, Sydney. Can you please provide one? Starting with the assumption that AUD 80k salary in IT in Sydney for the software engineer position will be equal to around $100k in SF.

Re: San Francisco, I Love You But You’re Bringing Me Down

#147

Post by awt »

greghinch wrote: post #112
jaysonelliot wrote: post #60

I don't understand why the author would move to Portland when we've got our own affordable, culturally rich, tech-friendly cities in the East Bay. Come to Oakland. It's beautiful here. The weather is better than San Francisco, you can ride your bicycle anywhere, public transit is good, and it's easy to get to SF as well as Silicon Valley (which I do regularly). There's no need to leave the entire Bay Area just becaus…

I don't mean this to play into stereotypes etc, but just as a matter of experience, every single person I know who's lived in Oakland for any significant amount of time (say 1 year or more), over the past 5 years, has been robbed at gunpoint at least once, usually while walking within a few blocks of their home. It's not a huge sample, I probably know half a dozen people/couples who live/have lived there. But the fac…

Twice burglarized in South Berkeley. Not worth it.

Re: San Francisco, I Love You But You’re Bringing Me Down

#148

Post by callahad »

king_jester wrote: post #74
hayward2 wrote: post #17

I don't understand why tech workers in the Bay Area feel guilty about receiving 'high' salaries of $100 - $200k/year. This is not a lot of money... People on Wall street laugh at these amounts. So do specialized doctors, corporate lawyers, investment bankers, etc. Software engineering is unfortunately a very middle class occupation at this point. I'd love to see it get up into the ranks of the upper class (at least f…

Software engineering is not a very middle class occupation, as you can easily earn amounts more than the average middle class family as a single worker, even in areas that are not tech hubs. > I don't understand why tech workers in the Bay Area feel guilty about receiving 'high' salaries of $100 - $200k/year. This is not a lot of money... People on Wall street laugh at these amounts. 100-200k a year is a lot of money…

> 100-200k a year is a lot of money. That amount easily puts you in the upper quartile of income earners in the US.

It's more stark than that. In 2011, $100,000 would put you in the top 20%, and $186,000 would put you in the top 5%. Of household income.

In 2010, only 6.61% of American individuals had six-figure (or greater) incomes. At 100k, you're already pulling down more than 93% of Americans.

Cites:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_income_in_the_United_...

http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/cpstables/032011/perinc/new01...

Re: San Francisco, I Love You But You’re Bringing Me Down

#149

Post by liveinoakland »

greghinch wrote: post #112
jaysonelliot wrote: post #60

I don't understand why the author would move to Portland when we've got our own affordable, culturally rich, tech-friendly cities in the East Bay. Come to Oakland. It's beautiful here. The weather is better than San Francisco, you can ride your bicycle anywhere, public transit is good, and it's easy to get to SF as well as Silicon Valley (which I do regularly). There's no need to leave the entire Bay Area just becaus…

I don't mean this to play into stereotypes etc, but just as a matter of experience, every single person I know who's lived in Oakland for any significant amount of time (say 1 year or more), over the past 5 years, has been robbed at gunpoint at least once, usually while walking within a few blocks of their home. It's not a huge sample, I probably know half a dozen people/couples who live/have lived there. But the fac…

where did they live? probably some sketchy part of west oakland where out-of-towners like to move because it's so grungy. you won't get robbed in piedmont, rockridge, montclair, temescal, grand lake usually, or JLS ever. but please keep upvoting this to the top! our rents are already going up because of SF spillover, feel free to avoid it and those of us in the know will keep enjoying our lives in the east bay with no complaints.

Re: San Francisco, I Love You But You’re Bringing Me Down

#150

Post by pdenya »

enraged_camel wrote: post #131
ryguytilidie wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I just bought a house in El Cerrito last week and while we paid above asking, it was 1/3 the price of what my friends on the peninsula are paying for a great place. The fact that people seem completely unwilling to commute 30 minutes for a life changing job is pretty bizarre to me.

No matter how life-changing a job is, the fact of the matter is that long commutes are almost always soul-sucking time-sinks that have a significant negative impact on the psychological well-being of those who do them. Besides, the longer the commute, the less free time you have, which takes away from your personal projects and massively decreases your chances of innovating or inventing something new.

I can and do work on the train. Car commuting is soul sucking. Public transportation commuting isn't great compared to working from home or something but it's not as awful as all that.
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