San Francisco, I Love You But You’re Bringing Me Down • Hacker News Board

Re: San Francisco, I Love You But You’re Bringing Me Down

#121

Post by zanny » Mon, Jul 08, 2013, 7:42 PM UTC

potatolicious wrote: post #97

foobarbazqux wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> real estate hyperinflation in general is a social ill that deserves to be tackled directly as such. How do you stop house prices from going up? You can't put a cap on property values without turning bidding into a lottery and screwing owners out of asset appreciation. You could make it easier to afford expensive houses by increasing the money supply, but our interest rates have been pegged at effectively zero for f…

It's not about stopping prices from going up, it's about stopping them from going up at an uncontrollable rate. Many desirable neighborhoods are seeing market rents increases in the double-digit percentages, every year . Some parts of SF are experiencing >20% YoY growth. That's real estate hyperinflation, far in excess of the normal appreciation you'd expect in a healthy economy with increasing population. And the so…

Too bad you can't build more in SF because of the building height limits, which is the principle reason housing rates are absurd. If the city made sense they'd build some highrise condos downtown and house the entrepreneurs in studio apartments.

Re: San Francisco, I Love You But You’re Bringing Me Down

#122

Post by yoda_sl » Mon, Jul 08, 2013, 7:42 PM UTC

api wrote: post #68

RKoutnik wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you looked into Alameda? It's hundreds cheaper than anywhere in SF proper, quieter/cleaner and my commute's only 20 min.

Where do you commute? My possible offer's in Mountain View, and that seems like it would take a while. I also looked at Fremont/Newark, but have never physically been there. What's that area like? School district maps say some of the schools are decent. FYI I am 35 with a new baby, so the question is "can a family live in SF comfortably without having a cash-out event or a salary in excess of $240k?" The offer I'm pu…

Fremont can be a good choice... Have lived there for a while and it has many convenient things:

- BART station: easy ride to the city

- Dumbarton bridge if you need to cross to go to Palo Alto (need to pay the toll but totally doable)

- taking 880 south, and then 237 you can then be in Mountain View/Sunnyvale area in 30 to 45 minutes by car depending on traffic.

- House prices in Fremont last time I checked were going up but they were still lower than the City or lower than south in SV

Overall Fremont is a good alternative choices which give you access to the City/Berkeley in 40 to 50 minutes drive/BART, and to the SV in the south. I was living in Fremont with my wife (no kids) for a salary way less than $240K, so totally doable IMHO.

Re: San Francisco, I Love You But You’re Bringing Me Down

#123

Post by chiph » Mon, Jul 08, 2013, 7:42 PM UTC

michaelochurch wrote: post #83

api wrote: post #30

I've got a possibly great job offer on the table from SF/SV, but may turn it down. I'd love the city I'm sure, but after glancing around I've come to the conclusion that home ownership is unthinkable to anyone who hasn't had a cash-out event. The real estate market is certifiably, utterly bat-dookie insane. NYC is often considered more expensive, and Manhattan is certainly... well... Manhattan. But taken collectively…

I regret that I have but one upvote to give you for this. Here, have an Indignation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EtCiP8B2xpc#t=7s In the long term, Silicon Valley and SF is eating its young. It's a city built on young entrepreneurs coming there and doing new stuff, but if nobody who hasn't already made it can afford to live there what happens then? The other problem is that these high costs soak up everyone's spar…

Austin real estate isn't as bat-shit insane as SF, but what I'm seeing is that there are people who are paying $10k over the asking price. And that is severely distorting the market.

Agreed that Austin isn't as "hit-driven" as SF is. Talent here is more diverse on an individual basis than other tech towns.

Re: San Francisco, I Love You But You’re Bringing Me Down

#124

Post by jaggederest » Mon, Jul 08, 2013, 7:42 PM UTC

drstewart wrote: post #40

There's a certain amount of irony in someone complaining about how rich techies ruined SF, and then gloat about how you move to another city to do the very same thing. In 10 years, people will be complaining about how people like the author "ruined" Portland (and Austin). Actually, this already happens.

As a Portland resident, I agree, rents are rising rapidly.

I think people will find it a bit harder than they imagine - there's a huge level of alienation. Obviously the original writer has a job nailed down, but if you don't, trying to find work for a good company here, or remotely into SF, is quite a bit harder than being wine-and-dined by 20 people in the SF area.

Re: San Francisco, I Love You But You’re Bringing Me Down

#125

Post by sliverstorm » Mon, Jul 08, 2013, 7:42 PM UTC

greghinch wrote: post #112

jaysonelliot wrote: post #60

I don't understand why the author would move to Portland when we've got our own affordable, culturally rich, tech-friendly cities in the East Bay. Come to Oakland. It's beautiful here. The weather is better than San Francisco, you can ride your bicycle anywhere, public transit is good, and it's easy to get to SF as well as Silicon Valley (which I do regularly). There's no need to leave the entire Bay Area just becaus…

I don't mean this to play into stereotypes etc, but just as a matter of experience, every single person I know who's lived in Oakland for any significant amount of time (say 1 year or more), over the past 5 years, has been robbed at gunpoint at least once, usually while walking within a few blocks of their home. It's not a huge sample, I probably know half a dozen people/couples who live/have lived there. But the fac…

That may have been part of what he was referring to by "culturally rich" ;)

Re: San Francisco, I Love You But You’re Bringing Me Down

#126

Post by frankcaron » Mon, Jul 08, 2013, 7:42 PM UTC

This is a sobering read as I prepare to move down to the Valley for work after years of talking about, and to a lesser extent dreaming about, it. One would hope that the experience for those of us who haven't had our stint there yet would still be worth it.

What say you, veterans? And what of San Mateo? That's where my new work is, and I wonder if I'd be better off living there than San Fran proper.

Re: San Francisco, I Love You But You’re Bringing Me Down

#127

Post by jongraehl » Mon, Jul 08, 2013, 7:43 PM UTC

indspenceable wrote: post #38

hayward2 wrote: post #17

I don't understand why tech workers in the Bay Area feel guilty about receiving 'high' salaries of $100 - $200k/year. This is not a lot of money... People on Wall street laugh at these amounts. So do specialized doctors, corporate lawyers, investment bankers, etc. Software engineering is unfortunately a very middle class occupation at this point. I'd love to see it get up into the ranks of the upper class (at least f…

Yes, it is a lot of money. Those professions make a lot of money too. I feel a little guilty because I have friends who are doing things which are way better for society (teachers, for instance) and are damn good at what they do, but making only a fraction of what I make. I feel good about what my company does, but I don't think we (or especially other companies that are adding so little value to people who actually…

It's not that teaching is better for society than whatever you do (is it? how would we really know?) - it's that you get immediate "helping someone out" feedback all the time. It must be gratifying on that level (aside from the fact that it's hard to actually reach anyone who feels compelled to "do time" in your classroom). If you feel like you're missing that "good person" feeling, I'm sure you can figure out ways to get it.

Re: San Francisco, I Love You But You’re Bringing Me Down

#128

Post by marcos123 » Mon, Jul 08, 2013, 7:43 PM UTC

api wrote: post #68

RKoutnik wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you looked into Alameda? It's hundreds cheaper than anywhere in SF proper, quieter/cleaner and my commute's only 20 min.

Where do you commute? My possible offer's in Mountain View, and that seems like it would take a while. I also looked at Fremont/Newark, but have never physically been there. What's that area like? School district maps say some of the schools are decent. FYI I am 35 with a new baby, so the question is "can a family live in SF comfortably without having a cash-out event or a salary in excess of $240k?" The offer I'm pu…

I'm pretty sure they made that comment under the assumption that your job offer was in SF. That was the impression I got reading your original comment as well.

Have you considered living in one of the many cities on the peninsula that are all extremely close to the Caltrain and BART tracks, 101 & 280 freeways, and much better schools than those in the east bay? They're also very close to the actual city you would be working in (Mountain View). Much closer than SF.

Re: San Francisco, I Love You But You’re Bringing Me Down

#129

Post by hindsightbias » Mon, Jul 08, 2013, 7:44 PM UTC

potatolicious wrote: post #97

foobarbazqux wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> real estate hyperinflation in general is a social ill that deserves to be tackled directly as such. How do you stop house prices from going up? You can't put a cap on property values without turning bidding into a lottery and screwing owners out of asset appreciation. You could make it easier to afford expensive houses by increasing the money supply, but our interest rates have been pegged at effectively zero for f…

It's not about stopping prices from going up, it's about stopping them from going up at an uncontrollable rate. Many desirable neighborhoods are seeing market rents increases in the double-digit percentages, every year . Some parts of SF are experiencing >20% YoY growth. That's real estate hyperinflation, far in excess of the normal appreciation you'd expect in a healthy economy with increasing population. And the so…

> build more

Clearly, higher density construction in NYC has dramatically reduce prices there.

There is no amount of construction in the subset of 49 square miles trendies want to live that is going to solve this problem. There are a million 1%'ers from around the world that will snap up a $750K condo before you 5%'ers can get it.

Re: San Francisco, I Love You But You’re Bringing Me Down

#130

Post by neild » Mon, Jul 08, 2013, 7:44 PM UTC

api wrote: post #68

RKoutnik wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you looked into Alameda? It's hundreds cheaper than anywhere in SF proper, quieter/cleaner and my commute's only 20 min.

Where do you commute? My possible offer's in Mountain View, and that seems like it would take a while. I also looked at Fremont/Newark, but have never physically been there. What's that area like? School district maps say some of the schools are decent. FYI I am 35 with a new baby, so the question is "can a family live in SF comfortably without having a cash-out event or a salary in excess of $240k?" The offer I'm pu…

I live in Fremont. It's boring suburbia. Lots of identikit housing, no good restaurants, not much to do. On the positive side, it's relatively inexpensive and is 30 minutes from Mountain View, San Jose, or Berkeley outside of commute hours.

If you care about living somewhere hip and exciting, Fremont is not for you. If you're okay with suburbia that's outside the heart of Silicon Valley, but still reasonably close, it's worth considering.