San Francisco, I Love You But You’re Bringing Me Down • Hacker News Board

Re: San Francisco, I Love You But You’re Bringing Me Down

#111

Post by api » Mon, Jul 08, 2013, 7:37 PM UTC

ryandrake wrote: post #103

api wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where do you commute? My possible offer's in Mountain View, and that seems like it would take a while. I also looked at Fremont/Newark, but have never physically been there. What's that area like? School district maps say some of the schools are decent. FYI I am 35 with a new baby, so the question is "can a family live in SF comfortably without having a cash-out event or a salary in excess of $240k?" The offer I'm pu…

Good luck. If you're planning on buying, the only areas in the Bay Area affordable to a single-income family will be places you don't want to live (East side and south San Jose, Hayward, and the nastier parts of Oakland). Also, in the current real estate market, you're going to need all-cash (or a very, very high down payment) and be willing to waive all the usual contingencies. It is a brutal seller's market, and as…

Yeah. I'm leaning toward no. But I'll hear them out. It's a good employer and they came after me, so why not.

Re: San Francisco, I Love You But You’re Bringing Me Down

#112

Post by greghinch » Mon, Jul 08, 2013, 7:38 PM UTC

jaysonelliot wrote: post #60

I don't understand why the author would move to Portland when we've got our own affordable, culturally rich, tech-friendly cities in the East Bay. Come to Oakland. It's beautiful here. The weather is better than San Francisco, you can ride your bicycle anywhere, public transit is good, and it's easy to get to SF as well as Silicon Valley (which I do regularly). There's no need to leave the entire Bay Area just becaus…

I don't mean this to play into stereotypes etc, but just as a matter of experience, every single person I know who's lived in Oakland for any significant amount of time (say 1 year or more), over the past 5 years, has been robbed at gunpoint at least once, usually while walking within a few blocks of their home. It's not a huge sample, I probably know half a dozen people/couples who live/have lived there. But the fact that all of them (or in the case of couples, at least 1 of the 2) have had it happen makes me say "no way" to the East Bay.

Re: San Francisco, I Love You But You’re Bringing Me Down

#113

Post by swang » Mon, Jul 08, 2013, 7:38 PM UTC

GFischer wrote: post #94

api wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And Oakland can get stabby. So it's stabby and overpriced. No thanks. If I wanted stabby I'd go to Detroit and get a Victorian for $25k.

I had to look up "stabby".. Is this what you were talking about? www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=stabby‎ or http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/stabby ?

He's referring to the high murder rate of Oakland.

Re: San Francisco, I Love You But You’re Bringing Me Down

#114

Post by kokey » Mon, Jul 08, 2013, 7:38 PM UTC

I have a similar relationship with London. Not because of the tech scene though some of my most challenging but rewarding jobs has been in London, but purely because nothing beats being at the heart of a lot of things, especially culture. After a few years I leave London to go somewhere where my quality of life increases massively, but then London draws me back again. I've moved there three times already and I won't be surprised if I end up back there again one day.

Re: San Francisco, I Love You But You’re Bringing Me Down

#115

Post by jaggederest » Mon, Jul 08, 2013, 7:39 PM UTC

gregd wrote: post #72

I'm moving to Portland Except the bourgeois cannot afford to live in Portland anymore either. Rentals are ungodly expensive, water is expensive (in the PNW no less), garbage is expensive, electricity is expensive and last but not least, parking is expensive. Please don't bring your San Francisco salary to Portland.

I'm pretty bourgeois and it's entirely affordable to me. Rent is 50% less.

My total monthly bills for utilities are $245 for a house, with AC.

Electricity is half the price it is in the bay area. Parking is a quarter of the price.

Re: San Francisco, I Love You But You’re Bringing Me Down

#116

Post by theboss » Mon, Jul 08, 2013, 7:40 PM UTC

GFischer wrote: post #94

api wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And Oakland can get stabby. So it's stabby and overpriced. No thanks. If I wanted stabby I'd go to Detroit and get a Victorian for $25k.

I had to look up "stabby".. Is this what you were talking about? www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=stabby‎ or http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/stabby ?

He means "stabby" as in "there are a lot of stabbings there and the possibility I will be stabbed is slightly higher than in other areas"

Re: San Francisco, I Love You But You’re Bringing Me Down

#117

Post by davidf18 » Mon, Jul 08, 2013, 7:40 PM UTC

The reason for the high cost of living in SF, Manhattan (where I live) and other cities is caused by politically induced market scarcity (also called economic rent by economists) through land use regulations in zoning that artificially regulates housing density to favor wealthy landlords so that rents and housing costs increase.

To make housing more affording, deregulate the zoning ordinances which artificially constrain housing supply.

This article in today's NY Times is about finding the only apartment less than $600K in the West Village ($595K for 408 sq feet) http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/09/nyregion/amid-housing-scar...

The issue is simply politics and nothing more.

Re: San Francisco, I Love You But You’re Bringing Me Down

#118

Post by pkananen » Mon, Jul 08, 2013, 7:40 PM UTC

Basic Economics (http://www.amazon.com/Basic-Economics-Common-Sense-Economy/d...). It's a thing.

Re: San Francisco, I Love You But You’re Bringing Me Down

#119

Post by michaelochurch » Mon, Jul 08, 2013, 7:41 PM UTC

Whatever large numbers of talented people get into seems to have a Clump Phase and a Chump Phase.

Clump Phase comes out of highly intelligent peoples' natural desire to be around each other (clumping) even at economic cost. This goes back to the medieval universities, but now is seen in technology companies where people would rather be a average fish in a huge pond than be the big fish elsewhere.

Now you have a lot of big fish in a school, or "clump". Then the spearfishers, usually rich, fat white men, spot it, then come along and start getting their take. Those are the MBAs who swept into Silicon Valley and are now the most powerful players, despite most of them having not written a line of code since college.

When there are more spearfishers than fish, the ecosystem gets to a point where decline is obvious and rent-seeking/musical-chairs behavior sets in. That's the Chump Phase.

That's where the Silicon Valley ecosystem, with its high rents and VC supercapitalists, is now.

Re: San Francisco, I Love You But You’re Bringing Me Down

#120

Post by ianstallings » Mon, Jul 08, 2013, 7:41 PM UTC

Hey if everyone in the tech scene wants to make Portland the place to be count me in. I'm in NYC right now but I could really use some fresh air. I mean that quite literally.