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San Francisco, I Love You But You’re Bringing Me Down

tomdale.net

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Re: San Francisco, I Love You But You’re Bringing Me Down

#91

One of the things that I love about living in Tampa while doing technology consulting traveling around the country is the cost of living. The cost of living is so low that I can afford to do anything that I want to do while still having a lot left over for savings.

This was by far the best thing about living just outside of Orlando (and, in the long run, the only good thing). I spend more now to live in Minnesota, and the tunnel vision exhibited by Silicon Valley and San Francisco residents is an ever-nagging reminder of how vastly different perspectives are within just this profession, and how difficult it can be to see solutions when you're mired too deeply in the problem.

One of the things that makes it difficult living in this area is the lack of people with similar interests. I usually spend time with some friends from high school who are motivated in similar ways to me. Random bars, though, forget it. I get too much of my social interactions that I identify with during the week with coworkers.

Re: San Francisco, I Love You But You’re Bringing Me Down

#92
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you looked into Alameda? It's hundreds cheaper than anywhere in SF proper, quieter/cleaner and my commute's only 20 min.

Where do you commute? My possible offer's in Mountain View, and that seems like it would take a while. I also looked at Fremont/Newark, but have never physically been there. What's that area like? School district maps say some of the schools are decent. FYI I am 35 with a new baby, so the question is "can a family live in SF comfortably without having a cash-out event or a salary in excess of $240k?" The offer I'm pu…

My job's in SOMA, a bit closer to Alameda than Mountain View. MV is probably one of the worst places, price-wise. You probably won't find budget housing near there, especially with a family/small child. Aging* millionaires have driven housing prices through the roof anywhere there's a good school system.

* SV "aging", in this case, having kids.

Re: San Francisco, I Love You But You’re Bringing Me Down

#94
post #79
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

houses are impossibly expensive in Oakland also.

And Oakland can get stabby. So it's stabby and overpriced. No thanks. If I wanted stabby I'd go to Detroit and get a Victorian for $25k.

I had to look up "stabby"..

Is this what you were talking about?

www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=stabby‎

or

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/stabby ?

Re: San Francisco, I Love You But You’re Bringing Me Down

#95
post #30

I've got a possibly great job offer on the table from SF/SV, but may turn it down. I'd love the city I'm sure, but after glancing around I've come to the conclusion that home ownership is unthinkable to anyone who hasn't had a cash-out event. The real estate market is certifiably, utterly bat-dookie insane. NYC is often considered more expensive, and Manhattan is certainly... well... Manhattan. But taken collectively…

> real estate hyperinflation in general is a social ill that deserves to be tackled directly as such. How do you stop house prices from going up? You can't put a cap on property values without turning bidding into a lottery and screwing owners out of asset appreciation. You could make it easier to afford expensive houses by increasing the money supply, but our interest rates have been pegged at effectively zero for f…

Building more housing is the only option, and like you say you can't build anything.

Maybe Peter Thiel needs to build his floating seasteading metropolis. If he put it in the bay you could connect SV to Newark and Fremont via a gentrified version of The Raft from Snow Crash.

Re: San Francisco, I Love You But You’re Bringing Me Down

#96
At the risk of unsolicited dating advice: is the reason one is embarassed to mention one's occupation to a woman at the bar caused by tech salaries being too high, or by years of social conditioning telling you that geeks are low status? (Or by learning that the way one signals high status is by constructing a low status outgroup and then explaining how you're unlike them?)

An alternative: just pretend society really likes rich people who make things, and start talking about something more interesting than your work.

Re: San Francisco, I Love You But You’re Bringing Me Down

#97
post #30

I've got a possibly great job offer on the table from SF/SV, but may turn it down. I'd love the city I'm sure, but after glancing around I've come to the conclusion that home ownership is unthinkable to anyone who hasn't had a cash-out event. The real estate market is certifiably, utterly bat-dookie insane. NYC is often considered more expensive, and Manhattan is certainly... well... Manhattan. But taken collectively…

> real estate hyperinflation in general is a social ill that deserves to be tackled directly as such. How do you stop house prices from going up? You can't put a cap on property values without turning bidding into a lottery and screwing owners out of asset appreciation. You could make it easier to afford expensive houses by increasing the money supply, but our interest rates have been pegged at effectively zero for f…

It's not about stopping prices from going up, it's about stopping them from going up at an uncontrollable rate.

Many desirable neighborhoods are seeing market rents increases in the double-digit percentages, every year. Some parts of SF are experiencing >20% YoY growth.

That's real estate hyperinflation, far in excess of the normal appreciation you'd expect in a healthy economy with increasing population.

And the solution to real estate hyperinflation is to build more.

Re: San Francisco, I Love You But You’re Bringing Me Down

#98

I don't understand why tech workers in the Bay Area feel guilty about receiving 'high' salaries of $100 - $200k/year. This is not a lot of money... People on Wall street laugh at these amounts. So do specialized doctors, corporate lawyers, investment bankers, etc. Software engineering is unfortunately a very middle class occupation at this point. I'd love to see it get up into the ranks of the upper class (at least f…

Software engineering is not a very middle class occupation, as you can easily earn amounts more than the average middle class family as a single worker, even in areas that are not tech hubs. > I don't understand why tech workers in the Bay Area feel guilty about receiving 'high' salaries of $100 - $200k/year. This is not a lot of money... People on Wall street laugh at these amounts. 100-200k a year is a lot of money…

I'd agree with you if I was referencing some mysterious elite who lucked into their positions or had ivy league connections. I'm talking about my friends from college who had average grades at a top 30 small private school on the East Coast. Several of the ones who went into finance make more than I do, and some a LOT more. I have friends who frequently clear $300k with bonuses in very average wall street jobs. They are in their late 20s... how many enginers can make that much? They are also still early in their careers. Some I imagine will go on to make 7 figure incomes at their peak, whereas we can agree that engineers will top out at 250-300k with bonuses working at the best companies in the world.

Now, I'm not saying I'm struggling to buy food or anything on my healthy engineering salary, I'm just saying that I don't feel guilty AT ALL about how much I make, nor do I feel that I am overpaid in anyway. I do tend to think my contribution to society is at least as much as my finance friends, so perhaps either I am underpaid or they are overpaid.

Re: San Francisco, I Love You But You’re Bringing Me Down

#99
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where do you commute? My possible offer's in Mountain View, and that seems like it would take a while. I also looked at Fremont/Newark, but have never physically been there. What's that area like? School district maps say some of the schools are decent. FYI I am 35 with a new baby, so the question is "can a family live in SF comfortably without having a cash-out event or a salary in excess of $240k?" The offer I'm pu…

My job's in SOMA, a bit closer to Alameda than Mountain View. MV is probably one of the worst places, price-wise. You probably won't find budget housing near there, especially with a family/small child. Aging* millionaires have driven housing prices through the roof anywhere there's a good school system. * SV "aging", in this case, having kids.

Heh.

I also hear that the SV school districts are not up to what you'd expect for a region with >$1mil house prices.

Re: San Francisco, I Love You But You’re Bringing Me Down

#100
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The main reason why people don't want new residential development is because it will feed into gentrification and push people out because they can no longer afford to live in SF. NYC has been and is going through this problem right now and it is not pretty. EDIT: There are a lot of comments about increasing supply as a way to make housing/apartments cheaper in SF. This is not at all well demonstrated, as in NYC new r…

[deleted]

> 1. Build more 2. Watch prices go up

I have my doubts about this. I would be interested to see evidence that you can actually drive prices down by increasing housing supply.

Because when I've been in a position to watch some dramatic housing supply buildouts in a few areas, my observation has been that generally been that the owners price (at least) somewhat above market rates for existing housing -- after all, it's new. Often it's marketed as luxury housing and leased/sold at multiples of the median price.

There's a few places I've observed a decrease in price. It's not where supply is increased, though, it's where demand drops, usually because the economic activity of the region drops off, but sometimes because of conflict/crime or health hazards.

If I'm right, then there are still two options -- build more or don't build more. Each case may have its own merits, but there's not a case that excludes prices going up for SF and the Bay Area.

Short of the current state of economic activity in the area turning out to be an unsustainable bubble or a major disaster, anyway.

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