San Francisco, I Love You But You’re Bringing Me Down • Hacker News Board

Re: San Francisco, I Love You But You’re Bringing Me Down

#61

Post by indspenceable » Mon, Jul 08, 2013, 7:14 PM UTC

johnward wrote: post #47

indspenceable wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it is a lot of money. Those professions make a lot of money too. I feel a little guilty because I have friends who are doing things which are way better for society (teachers, for instance) and are damn good at what they do, but making only a fraction of what I make. I feel good about what my company does, but I don't think we (or especially other companies that are adding so little value to people who actually…

If you feel guilty you could always go do those other things that benefit society more or even do some volunteer work so you feel less guilty about making a decent living.

That's my point: I feel like software salaries are so much more than decent living wages. I don't feel bad about what I do personally, but I feel bad about our industry as a whole.

Re: San Francisco, I Love You But You’re Bringing Me Down

#62

Post by jusben1369 » Mon, Jul 08, 2013, 7:14 PM UTC

I think this is exactly how to do San Francisco. Go live there as a "young" person. Learn from the best, make great business contacts in life and enjoy it all! Don't sweat the fact you're renting a small place and paying a lot. You're young and it's a trivial point in the big picture of things. After 5 - 10 years your priorities will change. As you start to think about a partner/children etc you'll reassess how great it is to be there. You'll be better able to go somewhere else and be successful due to what you've learned and who you know.

For 100+ years young people have gone to NY/Manhattan with the same dream of making a lot of money. Very few had their heart set on living in Manhattan though forever. SF is just struggling because it's morphing into that place too now. I suspect, though don't know, that there was some point in NY's history where people wrung their hands about how it was becoming impossible to be middle class and buy a home and raise a family there due to rising costs/education etc.

Re: San Francisco, I Love You But You’re Bringing Me Down

#63

Post by seivan » Mon, Jul 08, 2013, 7:15 PM UTC

I'll be doing the same thing, just doing remote work and leaving Stockholm. Not only expensive as fuck but close to impossible to actually get a place.

Rent control is a problem in Sweden as well, not to mention limited supply and queueing system. It's not the price that's the problem to be honest.

Re: San Francisco, I Love You But You’re Bringing Me Down

#64

Post by fibbery » Mon, Jul 08, 2013, 7:15 PM UTC

jaysonelliot wrote: post #60

I don't understand why the author would move to Portland when we've got our own affordable, culturally rich, tech-friendly cities in the East Bay. Come to Oakland. It's beautiful here. The weather is better than San Francisco, you can ride your bicycle anywhere, public transit is good, and it's easy to get to SF as well as Silicon Valley (which I do regularly). There's no need to leave the entire Bay Area just becaus…

houses are impossibly expensive in Oakland also.

Re: San Francisco, I Love You But You’re Bringing Me Down

#65

Post by Jgrubb » Mon, Jul 08, 2013, 7:15 PM UTC

necubi wrote: post #9

jseliger wrote: post #2

Even I, who makes a decent salary, have seen the great American dream of home ownership recede into the distance. That's a policy choice. I lived in Tucson for for years, and nice houses there could be bought for $200,000. Sometimes less. SF has made a choice about not allowing people to live there: http://www.slate.com/articles/business/moneybox/2012/05/face... , and in this respect it's like many other major cities…

That's pretty reductionist. San Francisco's housing policies are definitely responsible for some of the price difference between here and Tucson, but you can't ignore the geography. SF is a 7x7 mile square surrounded by water on three sides. Tucson is a sprawling mess that go on for dozens of miles. Dense, desirable, naturally bound cities are always going to be more expensive than endless exurbs. Look at housing pri…

Phoenix is the mess you're thinking of. Tucson is fairly reasonable as far as size goes.

Re: San Francisco, I Love You But You’re Bringing Me Down

#66

Post by RKoutnik » Mon, Jul 08, 2013, 7:15 PM UTC

api wrote: post #30

I've got a possibly great job offer on the table from SF/SV, but may turn it down. I'd love the city I'm sure, but after glancing around I've come to the conclusion that home ownership is unthinkable to anyone who hasn't had a cash-out event. The real estate market is certifiably, utterly bat-dookie insane. NYC is often considered more expensive, and Manhattan is certainly... well... Manhattan. But taken collectively…

Have you looked into Alameda? It's hundreds cheaper than anywhere in SF proper, quieter/cleaner and my commute's only 20 min.

Re: San Francisco, I Love You But You’re Bringing Me Down

#67

Post by jusben1369 » Mon, Jul 08, 2013, 7:17 PM UTC

RyanZAG wrote: post #6

Doesn't seem like a great solution. If the tech guys leave SF, it would be like Detroit. SF and tech are now linked in the way Detroit and cars were. If you try pull the tech out, you'll be left with a husk fighting over crumbs. I don't even live in SF and this is clear to me. Or maybe it's clear to me because I don't live in SF?

One way to say it would be that Detroit left their workers not their workers left Detroit. If some Asian or European capital suddenly became the home of innovation and the jobs left SF then you would have people leaving for other locales. However the reasoning and blog posts would be very different to this one at that point.

Re: San Francisco, I Love You But You’re Bringing Me Down

#68

Post by api » Mon, Jul 08, 2013, 7:17 PM UTC

RKoutnik wrote: post #66

api wrote: post #30

I've got a possibly great job offer on the table from SF/SV, but may turn it down. I'd love the city I'm sure, but after glancing around I've come to the conclusion that home ownership is unthinkable to anyone who hasn't had a cash-out event. The real estate market is certifiably, utterly bat-dookie insane. NYC is often considered more expensive, and Manhattan is certainly... well... Manhattan. But taken collectively…

Have you looked into Alameda? It's hundreds cheaper than anywhere in SF proper, quieter/cleaner and my commute's only 20 min.

Where do you commute? My possible offer's in Mountain View, and that seems like it would take a while.

I also looked at Fremont/Newark, but have never physically been there. What's that area like? School district maps say some of the schools are decent.

FYI I am 35 with a new baby, so the question is "can a family live in SF comfortably without having a cash-out event or a salary in excess of $240k?" The offer I'm pursuing could, if it pans out, be good but it probably would not quite be that good.

Re: San Francisco, I Love You But You’re Bringing Me Down

#69

Post by rayiner » Mon, Jul 08, 2013, 7:18 PM UTC

San Francisco is dealing with the same problem that New York had with finance. New York seems to have gotten over it, mostly: everyone realizes that finance pays the bills in New York, and finance people are mostly content with paying their taxes and leaving it at that. I wonder if San Francisco will come to terms with its reality before it's too late.

As for moving to Portland, it's a great idea. Wonderful city if you can find work there. I'd love to live there if it had more of an economy.

Re: San Francisco, I Love You But You’re Bringing Me Down

#70

Post by sivanmz » Mon, Jul 08, 2013, 7:18 PM UTC

If everyone in your tech-skewed job market is making comparable salaries, nominal values are far less important when competing for the same resources.