Yasiin Bey (aka Mos Def) force-fed under standard Guantánamo Bay procedure • Hacker News Board

Re: Yasiin Bey (aka Mos Def) force-fed under standard Guantánamo Bay procedure

#31

Post by morsch » Mon, Jul 08, 2013, 2:06 PM UTC

bbwharris wrote: post #11

napoleoncomplex wrote: post #4

Guantanamo Bay is one of the most disgusting institutions in the "civilized world". How is this acceptable? Treating humans as garbage, no trial, just meat stored for torture. Every day this piece of shit prison is open is a god damn disgrace for the entire human race.

While I agree it is a disgrace, what do you plan to do with the detainees? If they weren't "terrorists" before, they most likely are now. Think about it, that's the real problem. I'm not defending it, I think it should be closed too. These humans have been subjected to complete hell.

I don't see how you can be so sure the prisoners are most likely to be (if given the chance) terrorists now. I'm sure many will harbour extreme hate after what's been done to them, but most people don't deal with extreme hate by blowing other people up. Long-time prisoners of the FARC aren't given the third degree to make sure they don't intend to blow up Colombians or even go on a revenge spree against the FARC.

Maybe many of these people just want to go home and try to forget the last 10 years of their life?

All that said I understand that it's a terrible position to be in, having imprisoned these people for such a long time. The thing is, it just keeps getting worse and worse...

Re: Yasiin Bey (aka Mos Def) force-fed under standard Guantánamo Bay procedure

#32

Post by rjtavares » Mon, Jul 08, 2013, 2:11 PM UTC

Amadou wrote: post #15

skore wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed. Obama blaming congress today is, unfortunately, a case of plausible deniability.

I used to disagree with that sentiment, after all Congress did its best to stop the closure of Gitmo by not only blocking funding for the effort but also blocking the use of any pre-existing funds too. But then I read this: http://www.salon.com/2012/07/23/the_obama_gitmo_myth/ PS - am I alone in confusing Mos Def with MOSFET for about a decade and completely mispronouncing (and misunderstanding) the guy's stage name?

> am I alone in confusing Mos Def with MOSFET for about a decade and completely mispronouncing (and misunderstanding) the guy's stage name?

Most Definitely.

Re: Yasiin Bey (aka Mos Def) force-fed under standard Guantánamo Bay procedure

#33

Post by jabbernotty » Mon, Jul 08, 2013, 2:11 PM UTC

speeder wrote: post #24

DanBC wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taking innocent taxi drivers, subjecting them to the "gift of democracy" that is extraordinary rendition and torture while being detained without trial or charge is already an effective recruiting tool for terrorists. Allowing the detainees to kill themselves turns them into martyrs, and becomes even more effective at turning people to violence. Don't forget that this behaviour just shifts the curve of moderateness t…

US people don't realize how much US is hated... They are force fed so much propaganda on how US are heroes that go around the world saving people from evil, that they don't understand for example why lots of Brazillians cheered 9/11 (yes, Brazillians CHEERED 9/11, some even threw parties, the US people I knew that were here in Brazil acted very confused, not understanding at all why people would be happy that 10 thou…

There were 3000 casualties.

Re: Yasiin Bey (aka Mos Def) force-fed under standard Guantánamo Bay procedure

#34

Post by jganetsk » Mon, Jul 08, 2013, 2:12 PM UTC

speeder wrote: post #24

DanBC wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taking innocent taxi drivers, subjecting them to the "gift of democracy" that is extraordinary rendition and torture while being detained without trial or charge is already an effective recruiting tool for terrorists. Allowing the detainees to kill themselves turns them into martyrs, and becomes even more effective at turning people to violence. Don't forget that this behaviour just shifts the curve of moderateness t…

US people don't realize how much US is hated... They are force fed so much propaganda on how US are heroes that go around the world saving people from evil, that they don't understand for example why lots of Brazillians cheered 9/11 (yes, Brazillians CHEERED 9/11, some even threw parties, the US people I knew that were here in Brazil acted very confused, not understanding at all why people would be happy that 10 thou…

Brazilians cheering 9/11, if true, is completely disgusting. It sounds like they are also fed some propaganda.

Re: Yasiin Bey (aka Mos Def) force-fed under standard Guantánamo Bay procedure

#35

Post by krapp » Mon, Jul 08, 2013, 2:17 PM UTC

speeder wrote: post #24

DanBC wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taking innocent taxi drivers, subjecting them to the "gift of democracy" that is extraordinary rendition and torture while being detained without trial or charge is already an effective recruiting tool for terrorists. Allowing the detainees to kill themselves turns them into martyrs, and becomes even more effective at turning people to violence. Don't forget that this behaviour just shifts the curve of moderateness t…

US people don't realize how much US is hated... They are force fed so much propaganda on how US are heroes that go around the world saving people from evil, that they don't understand for example why lots of Brazillians cheered 9/11 (yes, Brazillians CHEERED 9/11, some even threw parties, the US people I knew that were here in Brazil acted very confused, not understanding at all why people would be happy that 10 thou…

I think you may be conflating your own sadism with something normative and just. Despite your assertions elsewhere that the whole world is just waiting for an opportunity to turn the United States into a graveyard, most people around the world do not not, in fact, hate the United States so vehemently that 9/11 made them cheer. Most people around the world reacted the way human beings with empathy do, with horror and sadness. I would even bet most Brazilians didn't hold parties celebrating the bloodshed.

Your point of view isn't normal. Please stop acting as if it is, and please stop acting as if that level of enmity represents something good and noble about the people of Brazil. You make your country look like a bunch of psychopaths.

Re: Yasiin Bey (aka Mos Def) force-fed under standard Guantánamo Bay procedure

#36

Post by 9h1d9j809s » Mon, Jul 08, 2013, 2:22 PM UTC

thufry wrote: post #28

madaxe wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not in the UK they wouldn't, no. Only in your barbarous country do such things (legally) happen in prisons. We recently had a debate over Ian Brady staying in a mental prison vs. prison prison, as under psychiatric care they can force feed you, but not in prison.

So they would let you die? I'm not sure that's clearly more humane.

Yes, it is. If you make my life hell, at least give me the freedom to die.

Re: Yasiin Bey (aka Mos Def) force-fed under standard Guantánamo Bay procedure

#37

Post by yannis » Mon, Jul 08, 2013, 2:26 PM UTC

peterkelly wrote: post #21

bbwharris wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I agree it is a disgrace, what do you plan to do with the detainees? If they weren't "terrorists" before, they most likely are now. Think about it, that's the real problem. I'm not defending it, I think it should be closed too. These humans have been subjected to complete hell.

One idea would be to bring them on to American soil and treat them under the same conditions as those held in US jails and in accordance with US law, instead of doing it in Cuba of all places.

Another idea is to bring them to the US and treat them like normal citizens either charge them or let them go free.

Re: Yasiin Bey (aka Mos Def) force-fed under standard Guantánamo Bay procedure

#38

Post by madaxe » Mon, Jul 08, 2013, 2:27 PM UTC

thufry wrote: post #28

madaxe wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not in the UK they wouldn't, no. Only in your barbarous country do such things (legally) happen in prisons. We recently had a debate over Ian Brady staying in a mental prison vs. prison prison, as under psychiatric care they can force feed you, but not in prison.

So they would let you die? I'm not sure that's clearly more humane.

Were I in the shoes of one of the kidnap victims at Guantanamo (for that is all they are - they are neither prisoners nor combatants, just abductees), I would not wish to continue that existence. The right to death is as important as the right to life.

Re: Yasiin Bey (aka Mos Def) force-fed under standard Guantánamo Bay procedure

#39

Post by elleferrer » Mon, Jul 08, 2013, 2:28 PM UTC

So...I kind of don't feel bad about this ever since those allegations of domestic violence surfaced.

Re: Yasiin Bey (aka Mos Def) force-fed under standard Guantánamo Bay procedure

#40

Post by madaxe » Mon, Jul 08, 2013, 2:29 PM UTC

DanBC wrote: post #27

madaxe wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not in the UK they wouldn't, no. Only in your barbarous country do such things (legally) happen in prisons. We recently had a debate over Ian Brady staying in a mental prison vs. prison prison, as under psychiatric care they can force feed you, but not in prison.

And only a limited number of people with mental health problems can be force fed. The person needs to be detained under section of the mental health act, and to lack capacity to make the decision.

And Ian Brady doesn't lack that capacity. The judgment to keep him in Broadmoor was yet another example of "the moral state", not abiding by the rule of law, and instead abiding by selective, moral justice.