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“Why did you shoot me? I was reading a book”

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Re: “Why did you shoot me? I was reading a book”

#311

Post by epsylon »

llamataboot wrote: post #242
yogo wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These things are still pretty rare. Unfortunately, once you start raiding barber shops and pool halls with so much heat something like this is bound to happen. I still find it to be an honorable job with honest guys that put their lives on the line; however, statistically there's always going to be some hot-headed trigger-happy guy involved. Plus even if they're not on the force they're in some neighborhood as the un…

Give someone assault weapons, train them to believe that they are fighting for good, and remove all legal and moral contraints and watch how quick they turn into a "bad apple". It's not a personnel problem, it's a structural problem. See Stanford Prison Experiment, etc.

> Stanford Prison Experiment

Relevant SMBC http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=3025#comic

Re: “Why did you shoot me? I was reading a book”

#312

Post by gromy »

sneak wrote: post #304
jleader wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's debate about whether increased availability of abortion really accounts for the decline in crime; one alternative hypothesis is that reduced rates of childhood exposure to lead (mostly from leaded gasoline and the resultant exhaust) is at least as responsible.

I remember reading a fantastic article on that topic, have you got a link?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/07...

Re: “Why did you shoot me? I was reading a book”

#313

Post by jlgreco »

tsotha wrote: post #308
jlgreco wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this actually the case? Of course he didn't know the reason this cop was his "friend" and the cop didn't introduce himself as a cop, but after a few months you would think that his job would have come up once or twice. Did the cop lie when asked about it? Regardless, it is more than enough reason to never be "friends" with a cop.

The article implies the cop was undercover. Look at it this way: If you knew your buddy was a cop, would you break the law in front of him and put him in an awkward position? I'm sure the cop's job did come up. And I'm sure he lied. Who would bother to check?

If I were more trusting of police, I suspect I would not think twice about some minor sports gambling with them. That is not the sort of thing that most people think twice about.

Re: “Why did you shoot me? I was reading a book”

#314

Post by Qantourisc »

strathmeyer wrote: post #93
mds wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think he meant "training in dealing with barking dogs"

No American police are generally resistant to training of any type, such as firearm training. They don't like other people telling them they don't know how to do their jobs, that would make them lose confidence. It's why they need to shoot at you sixty times in order to hit you once.

Also please not that shooting a gun under stress is probably not going to be easier. However, this should not be an excuse.

Re: “Why did you shoot me? I was reading a book”

#315

Post by jmadsen »

I think the real problem behind this is quite simple - studies have shown what we probably know from personal experience, that when you wear a "mask" - whether one of anonymity, or a "Robo Cop"-like getup, it makes you behave more aggressively.

The reasons behind why every PD has all of this paramilitary gear is well-studied but best left for another thread; the fact is they have it, and when they wear it they are more likely to behave like any other human being who finds himself suddenly hiding behind full body armor.

It's not the police that's the problem, it's the gear, and departments who ignore the mental impact of having it & don't adjust their training to match.

Re: “Why did you shoot me? I was reading a book”

#316

Post by BrandonMarc »

VladRussian2 wrote: post #281
ajtaylor wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not the America I grew up in, nor the one I want to live in. So I left and have no plans to go back anytime soon. The land of the free isn't so free anymore, which makes me incredibly sad. And my parents live in VA!

well, the America has definitely changed during last decade+. Yet, still it is somewhat surprising that there is a place you found you think is more free.

Agreed. I would ask where you found, but then I don't want to jinx it.

Re: “Why did you shoot me? I was reading a book”

#317

Post by lostlogin »

ryanSrich wrote: post #233
sneak wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's shit like this that flies in the face of all those "but most cops are not bad guys" arguments. If an organization fights to protect bad guys, I don't care how much good they do: they are complicit in furthering criminal behavior. And they're in a position of trust, at that! It's an open secret that cops lie to protect other cops. Why do we allow this? Any other person in a special position of trust and responsib…

Cops have no legal obligation to protect you. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_v._District_of_Columbia

Having no obligation to protect is quite different to having the right to shoot and kill.

Re: “Why did you shoot me? I was reading a book”

#318

Post by GeneralMayhem »

Steuard wrote: post #230
stcredzero wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The presumption of innocence is not directly enshrined in the constitution, and in the case of some crimes, like rape, has been deliberately and explicitly weakened.

This is a bit off topic for this thread but given that you brought it up: It is hard for me to look at, say, Steubenville[1] (to take just the most publicized of several examples that I've seen in the news lately) and understand how anyone can suggest that accused rapists aren't given a presumption of innocence in our society. The blame heaped on rape victims is often tremendous, even when everyone knows that it happ…

If you look at the community of Steubenville, yes.

If you look at the wider picture of media coverage, quite the opposite. Reddit started the witch trial pretty much instantly, with some of the most upvoted comments being for life in prison or worse.

Look at the backlash when CNN referred to the accused as boys with a formerly promising future whose lives were now ruined. God forbid you show an ounce of sympathy for accused rapists, because it's impossible to be sympathetic to the victim and not want anyone to go through the hell that the rest of their collective life is going to be.

Re: “Why did you shoot me? I was reading a book”

#319

Post by saraid216 »

darkarmani wrote: post #277
saraid216 wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's rhetoric like this that makes cops feel obligated to protect each other from other citizens. If you're accused of a crime, you deserve maximum legal effort applied for your defense.

> It's rhetoric like this that makes cops feel obligated to protect each other from other citizens. Wait, what? If citizen's lied for each other in investigations, they'd be prosecuted.

> Wait, what? If citizen's lied for each other in investigations, they'd be prosecuted.

What, the Internal Affairs division just doesn't exist? Does it not have enough power? Is that what's really being argued here?

Or is this just feel-good we're-the-good-guys they're-the-bad-guys rhetoric intended to undermine what capabilities they have, cause them to feel threatened and insecure in the midst of the citizenry they're supposed to be protecting, and motivating them to develop a similar and responsive antagonistic attitude that is precisely the seed of a police state?

Is the argument "they started it"? Is that the level of discourse that a mature, educated citizenry ought to engage in?

Fuck people like sneak. All they're good for is exacerbating problems that exist, making it that much harder to fix, fulfilling their own prophecies of doom and gloom, to no useful end other than making themselves feel self-important. It's like discovering database corruption and going, "Hell, let's run DELETE in with random WHERE clauses and see what happens. Because my job title says VP of Marketing."

Re: “Why did you shoot me? I was reading a book”

#320

Post by lostlogin »

shef_hauwanga wrote: post #286
ori_b wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And when they lie, steal, and cheat, they should be punished. In fact, they should be punished much more harshly than the general public, because it is their duty to prevent lying, stealing, and cheating. They should be held to a higher standard.

This cannot be stressed enough. Anyone who enforces a rule through violence but is not subject to that rule is nothing more than a thug.

This made me laugh. Applying this rule to the US is hilarious. The collection of Gitmo detainees, drone victims, the tortured, the extraordinary rendered, bombed, shot and otherwise victimised non-US citizens that happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time when Uncle Sam came knocking over their countries probably aren't smiling with me.
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