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The Jobless Rate for Poor Black Teen Dropouts is 95%

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Re: The Jobless Rate for Poor Black Teen Dropouts is 95%

#91

Post by Spooky23 »

saalweachter wrote: post #84
cpeterso wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I imagine a huge number of people on Basic Income would just blow all the money on the first day of each month on drugs and frivolous consumer goods. That said, I do think society has an obligation to provide a basic guarantee of life's needs: education, food and income, and health care. There is only so much society or any individual can do for someone if they, given the tools and opportunity, choose to waste it.

What do you mean by "a huge number"? Do you mean "a huge number" or do you mean "a huge fraction"? The difference is important for policy decisions. 25% of Americans are food insecure each year. If you gave them enough money to not be (we sort of try to do this: about 15% of the US population received food stamps at some point last year, but 15% is less than 25%, and the monetary amount is sometimes too small to prev…

Food security is a working poor problem. Totally different scenario. The 95% of unemployed youth mentioned here are going to be in jail in the next year or so. Fraud rates are way higher than 1%, but its still money well spent.

The issue here is that family lives of these kids are train wrecks. No stability, no father, probably a mother who was a pregnant 14-15 year old. The 5% kids who have a job probably had a strong grandparent or religious presence.

To help these kids, you need to intervene around ages 1-3 with daycare/headstart. Give them some hope and structure, and get them away from or improve the skills of their clueless parents (who are often kids themselves).

Re: The Jobless Rate for Poor Black Teen Dropouts is 95%

#92

Post by readme »

1123581321 wrote: post #69
readme wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hardly. Lowering the minimum wage isn't going to make an unskilled and lazy teenager useful. We have programs for this: * http://www.jobcorps.gov/home.aspx -- This provides room, board, a stipend suitable for a teenager with no expenses, and vocational training for those under 25 years old (i.e, teens) * http://www.fafsa.ed.gov/ -- There's really no disputing this one. Any one of them can hoof it over to the nearest…

I directly disagree. Lowering minimum wage reduces the risk of hiring an unskilled and lazy teenager to train them in a job. When you look at one hour of one person's work, the difference between $9, $7, $5 and $3 an hour seems trivial. Surely the employer has a five dollar bill sitting around, right? But when you look at full work weeks of time, plus the costs of training the job, multiplied by all of the employees…

Except the military and Job Corps provide room and board. I suppose if a student was really good he could get room & board from a college and scrape by during the summers, but it's not the same deal.

Re: The Jobless Rate for Poor Black Teen Dropouts is 95%

#93

Post by w1ntermute »

bluedino wrote: post #65

Where are the young black kids in tech? Blacks of any age are sorely under-represented in tech. So are Latinos, although not quite as bad. It's a very white (and Asian/Indian) world we live in. I'm so glad to see things like Black Girls Code. These kids need mentors that aren't sports stars, or music stars. Oddly enough, music is one industry I always remember running into a lot of black people in - Macs and ProTools…

> Oddly enough, music is one industry I always remember running into a lot of black people in - Macs and ProTools used in music production.

That's not odd at all. Blacks are hugely overrepresented in the music industry (as well as the pro sports industry).

You gotta love how American society is always collectively wringing its hands about how there aren't enough black people in STEM, but nobody mentions how underrepresented Asians are in the entertainment and pro sports industries.

Re: The Jobless Rate for Poor Black Teen Dropouts is 95%

#94

Post by notatoad »

tzs wrote: post #25
mjfl wrote: post #11

What jobs are you going to give them? Cashiers these days have Bachelors degrees in Communications. It's the inflation in the system. America is not producing as many factories as it used to, manual labor jobs in construction are hard enough to get. If you drop out, it's going to be tough to get a job.

If that were the explanation, then wouldn't we expect white drop-outs to have unemployment rates that are similar?

not really. A black high school drop out is probably looking for a job in a city (and a large city at that). a white high school dropout is much more likely to be looking for a job in a rural area or a smaller city, where there are much more opportunities for people with less education.

Re: The Jobless Rate for Poor Black Teen Dropouts is 95%

#96

Post by jlgreco »

readme wrote: post #88
jlgreco wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that there is value in dropping the minimum wage for teenagers dramatically, regardless of these issues. Giving teenagers another place to get yelled at for not working hard enough (besides just school and home) is clearly beneficial (as you note about the military) but the options that you list are not sufficient. They require too much of a lifestyle change which makes those programs seem inaccessible. Letti…

>dropping the minimum wage for teenagers I can agree to this, except, lets do it this way: lets leave the minimum wage where it is for teens, and raise it for everyone else. That'd also solve the problem of adults working jobs that are meant for teens.

Aye, that is a great way to do it. Probably easier to implement it that way from a political point of view.

Re: The Jobless Rate for Poor Black Teen Dropouts is 95%

#97

Post by quaunaut »

hkmurakami wrote: post #39
jlgreco wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds almost like a modern homesteading act. Interesting idea.

I wonder what fraction of the (let's call it) hopelessly unemployed would take up such an option if it's offered to everyone who wants it. As a whole our society has become much more entitled than back in those days, and the way in which we've been brought up, I wonder if some would see it as patronizing and reject the offer, even if it really would have meant a better future for them. Then again I have been incredib…

I don't see it getting used by a majority- but 10, 20% maybe? Sure. There's a lot of shame that comes with being jobless, and as much as you think we're more entitled as a culture, people who go years without work, while living in poverty or just above it, don't feel entitled for much.

However, many of them are incredibly close to their family or friends- after all, what's the point of life if you don't have anything you love in yours? I was a bit fortunate that my family had effectively written me off as a failure, which left me little guilt to feel when I left.

Then, my entire life turned around. In the span of 14 months, I go from unemployed, to auto parts delivery, to paid-for-shit web developer, to absolutely amazing webdev/product development job. All without college, and thusly, with no debt.

I got stupendously lucky, once the bad luck ran out. But I don't imagine as many had the pure hopelessness that I had before, where you have no moral support from friends/family, and no hope for work, which gives you no reason to not leave.

Re: The Jobless Rate for Poor Black Teen Dropouts is 95%

#98

Post by quaunaut »

sliverstorm wrote: post #82
quaunaut wrote: post #18

Honest question: Have we, as a society, looked into possibly supplying people with short-term loans, with a guaranteed open position for someone at a place in more rural parts of America? Originally, I was born in Fresno, CA. We didn't have the most healthy job rate when times were good, let alone once the recession hit. I spent five years looking for a job- and didn't find one until I got the help of a friend online…

It could certainly be tried on the private scale. Perhaps you help them locate a position in addition to bankrolling the move. I don't think there are many loan products currently that could fill that kind of need, so it could be an open opportunity.

Certainly could. But God, talk about risky investment. I don't see how you'd reliably make your money back. Not to mention, what business is going to say, "Yeah I want the dregs of somewhere really far away." without extra monetary incentive?

Re: The Jobless Rate for Poor Black Teen Dropouts is 95%

#99

Post by Daniel_Newby »

jlgreco wrote: post #53
kansface wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, so anyone say 14 or older gets X/year? Any thoughts on what X would be. I assume this would supplant welfare to some degree?

Yes, though most proposals start at 18 I believe. It has some advantages over more traditional welfare systems. For instance it could be implemented with far less bureaucracy and would help improve labor mobility in the middle class by decreasing the friction of changing jobs and moving to different areas with better jobs (improving labor mobility would benefit the economy at large).

18 is probably too old. We want the child support handout to be separated from the parent as early as possible. Giving 12 year olds their own income is probably better than either welfare queens or fertility police.

Re: The Jobless Rate for Poor Black Teen Dropouts is 95%

#100

Post by dllthomas »

Jayschwa wrote: post #57
hooande wrote: post #38

This seems like another argument for Basic Income. A lot of young, jobless people (males especially) isn't only a moral problem, but it's a sociological problem. The young jobless commit more crimes, are more likely to join gangs and are generally more of a drain on society. Giving them an income would remove the social pressure to constantly look for jobs that aren't actually there. People could focus on internships…

> This seems like another argument for Basic Income. Or another argument against minimum wage. Minimum wage gets increased as cost-of-living goes up (albeit with a large lag). That's good if you're the household bread-winner trying to live off a minimum wage job. It's bad if you're a kid looking for some spending money. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

> > This seems like another argument for Basic Income.

> Or another argument against minimum wage.

How about both?

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