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Stay-at-home dad

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Re: Stay-at-home dad

#111

Post by shirro »

Women are graduating in higher numbers and getting better positions. My wife has a permanent secure job so I made the practical decision to be home dad 5 years ago. It is a huge readjustment for anyone not used to looking after kids regardless of their chromosomes. Junior primary and preschool teachers (universally women) and women at playgroup are very accepting. My kids probably miss out a bit on the social activities mums seem to plan with each other but they get to kick a football with dad and dig holes in the back yard. I take my youngest to the park to play in the playground nearly every day. Perhaps I am just thick-skinned but I don't notice being treated any differently and I see plenty of other dad spending time with their kids.

The only time I felt I got the predator treatment was when we lost our escape artist kid in a big store and I found him at about the same time as one of the staff members and she snatched him from me and handed him over to his mum. I think that was just good training rather than a reaction to my beardiness. His mum had reported him missing while I went and found him so the staff member had no idea who I was.

Re: Stay-at-home dad

#112

Post by Falling3 »

cristianpascu wrote: post #13
da02 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have an example of how she handled it differently? (Other than the emotional sitations.) I'm always curious of how others solve situations in a different (ie better) way than I could.

She was more empathic with our son. When he'd say he doesn't want to walk up the stairs be himself cause his feet hurt him, for instance. I'd tend to rationalize, and think that he's just pretending to be carried by one of us. But really, the non-emotional situations don't matter that much. They are essential for the parent-child bound and their emotional development. Self-confidence and ability the empathize later i…

That says nothing about fathers and everything about you. I'm empathetic to a fault and I wouldn't be at all surprised if I were the parent that did better in these emotional situations.

edit: I forgot to explicitly state that I am a male, just in case that wasn't obvious.

Re: Stay-at-home dad

#113

Post by icebraining »

hobs wrote: post #104
karmajunkie wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In other words, in countries where men make all the rules and run the show nobody dares look askance at a man in a public setting? Go figure.

Does that mean women are setting the rules in America?

No, the inference from karmajunkie's post is that in America men don't make all the rules.

Re: Stay-at-home dad

#114

Post by seanmcdirmid »

karmajunkie wrote: post #83
adrianbye wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this doesn't happen in non feminist countries (ie usually 3rd world).

In other words, in countries where men make all the rules and run the show nobody dares look askance at a man in a public setting? Go figure.

Where the heck did that come from? For example, China is arguably a very matriarchal society, and guys take their kids out all the time.

Re: Stay-at-home dad

#115

Post by icebraining »

Falling3 wrote: post #102
lazyjones wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's society, especially when it's a society in a country that traditionally values freedom and individuals' rights. What is behind this new culture of fear is politics: fear is great for manipulating the masses, most effective when those who promote it can present themselves as a solution.

>What is behind this new culture of fear is politics: fear is great for manipulating the masses, most effective when those who promote it can present themselves as a solution. I hear people from all walks of life make claims like this constantly. While I don't doubt that some use fear to purposefully manipulate us, I do not see it as the norm. The media doesn't care about controlling us. It cares about it's viewershi…

I was far from a fan of Steve Jobs, but that's one thing where I really agree with him:

  When you're young, you look at television and think, There's a
  conspiracy. The networks have conspired to dumb us down. But when
  you get a little older, you realize that's not true. The networks
  are in business to give people exactly what they want. That's a
  far more depressing thought. Conspiracy is optimistic! You can
  shoot the bastards! We can have a revolution! But the networks
  are really in business to give people what they want.
Which doesn't necessarily make his suggestion a bad idea, though. That broadcasting FUD is a profitable business model doesn't make it an ethical one.

Re: Stay-at-home dad

#116

Post by saraid216 »

lazyjones wrote: post #96
saraid216 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our society is built to promote fear. We're heavily, heavily individualistic and isolationist. Our cultural prime directive is, "Never again!"

I don't think it's society, especially when it's a society in a country that traditionally values freedom and individuals' rights. What is behind this new culture of fear is politics: fear is great for manipulating the masses, most effective when those who promote it can present themselves as a solution.

> especially when it's a society in a country that traditionally values freedom and individuals' rights

You're not hearing what I said. It's exactly that tradition that causes the culture of fear. Our society is designed to minimize the influence one random person has over another. One of the things that falls out from that design is a hue and cry any time the suggestion of a bad influence of one person over another is possible.

Re: Stay-at-home dad

#117

Post by anotherevan »

Dewie wrote: post #3

> It also still gets under my skin when people call it "babysitting" or "daddy daycare." It seems like a lot of people feel that dads can only be second-rate caregivers compared to moms, as if they were to take care of a toddler it would only be as an assistant or subordinate to the mother.

My own mum pulled this one on me. We were talking on the phone and she could hear my daughter playing in the background. As one point it dawned on her that she could not hear my wife.

  "Is Susan out?"
  "Yeah she's gone out to [I forget what]."
  "So you're home babysitting?"
  "No, it's just Alice here, no one else."
  "???"
In an extremely polite but pointed way, I informed her that I was her father, not her babysitter. She never made that mistake again.

Re: Stay-at-home dad

#118

Post by seanmcdirmid »

tokenadult wrote: post #95
avalaunch wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ripped directly from a rejection letter I received: "I think instead of making a more detailed offer, I should consider certain facts. For starters, you have a family and that'll be the driving force behind all your decisions. Secondly, you will not be able to be here in the program with me. Ideally, I want someone who could be here though not necessary. More importantly, it's the family situation I consider. I've wo…

You received a rejection letter that basically lists illegal reasons (in most states I'm aware of) for rejecting you. You were lucky not to get that job, as the boss is clueless about the legal responsibilities of hiring supervisors. You have a basis for a lawsuit there, if you need the money or want to make a point. If you are not litigious (I am not litigious either, so I respect anyone's decision to decline to exe…

Well, at least the supervisor was honest. If they were legal savvy, they still would have rejected him, but would have used something more vague and icky. The fact is that age/status discrimination is still a thing in the United States, and why many of us most go work for BigCorps (who are savvy also, but less so) rather than startups or small companies.

Re: Stay-at-home dad

#119

Post by anotherevan »

autodidakto wrote: post #40
qznc wrote: post #30

Odd that stay-at-home women label themselves as "not working". I often try to convince my wife and others to proudly answer "mother" when asked for their work. It might not get payed, but it surely is a lot of work.

I think "homemaker" is a dignified, gender neutral term. But for subversive fun, I like the title "househusband".

I like to riff on the old Bella Abzug quote and say I prefer the word homemaker because househusband implies that there may be a husband someplace else.

I usually go with "primary parent." Speaking of which, it has been surprisingly hard to get the school to list me as the first person to contact instead of my wife since I became the primary.

Re: Stay-at-home dad

#120

Post by adrianbye »

withad wrote: post #105
adrianbye wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i know, feminism is a sacred cow. the truth is that men tend to be highly valued in the 3rd world. by comparison in the west they tend to kill themselves as they get older: http://www.prb.org/Articles/2006/ElderlyWhiteMenAfflictedbyH... are you aware we've blocked right wing research out of academia, so these issues never get researched properly? http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/08/science/08tier.html?_r=0 and that mar…

Yes, men do tend to be highly valued in some countries. And women in such countries tend to be treated as property. What does that have to do with suicide rates of men in the US? And what does any of it have to do with your original point about feminism somehow causing media scare stories? It's unfortunate that politics can have such an influence on science and psychology and sociology are far from the only fields it…

Margaret Mead provided the foundation for feminism to advance by "proving" that culture drove society, not genetics.

Unfortunately that isn't true. Genetics shapes culture. One of the interesting things from Mead's "research" was that Samoan women were having a lot of premarital sex in the 1920's. Yet somehow none got pregnant but that was overlooked.

When you force people too far out of their natural roles, bad things happen. There's a whole lot more to this and its fascinating to see how people don't realise it.

I respect that feminism is the moral case. Genetics is the scientific one, which currently is not respected. There's a balance between the two

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