“Why did you shoot me? I was reading a book” • Hacker News Board

Re: “Why did you shoot me? I was reading a book”

#131

Post by solistice » Sun, Jul 07, 2013, 5:38 PM UTC

etherael wrote: post #24

kdeberk wrote: post #11

To me it seems that there are a lot of issues at play that led to the death of this man, but temporarily ignoring the fact that it seems hypocritical for a state to both punish gamblers while promoting a state lottery, it appears necessary that SWAT teams are required to arrest people within their own homes given the fact that people are free to own weapons and use those for protection. I'm not saying that firearms n…

This argument is spectacularly stupid because based on the rise of exactly these kinds of incidents, you could justify the production and distribution of automated turrets to negate the use of current SWAT tactics. You can't just stop at the perceived consequences of your supposed equilibrium point, you have to follow it all the way to the logical conclusion. If this keeps up and/or accelerates, it's only a matter of…

They are allready out there.

http://projectsentrygun.rudolphlabs.com/ http://realsentrygun.com/ http://paintballsentry.com/Videos.htm

also, with OpenCV, cheap hobby servos, webcams and 35$ Raspis, and 40$ AKs, the parts are pretty easy to come by.

Re: “Why did you shoot me? I was reading a book”

#132

Post by mikeash » Sun, Jul 07, 2013, 5:39 PM UTC

nhangen wrote: post #108

mikeash wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sadly, yes, it is the America that America wants, as far as I can tell. I think this is where efforts to fight these problems fall down. They're almost all based on the assumption that the populace doesn't want this stuff to happen, but that the government pushes it through by abusing power, subverting democracy, etc. But from what I see, this is not the case. Most Americans want this. Whether it's gun-wielding mania…

It's not that America wants this, it's that the politicians we elect do not keep their promises. Those that try are forced out, shaken down, relegated to stay at the bottom of the ladder. In our current political climate, a politician must barter ethics and morality for the power to do what they promised. And by then, it's too late, they're already gone.

A few don't, but most politicians run on a platform of being tough on crime and tough on terror, then do exactly what they said they'd do.

Re: “Why did you shoot me? I was reading a book”

#133

Post by takluyver » Sun, Jul 07, 2013, 5:39 PM UTC

MarkHarmon wrote: post #113

mikeash wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sadly, yes, it is the America that America wants, as far as I can tell. I think this is where efforts to fight these problems fall down. They're almost all based on the assumption that the populace doesn't want this stuff to happen, but that the government pushes it through by abusing power, subverting democracy, etc. But from what I see, this is not the case. Most Americans want this. Whether it's gun-wielding mania…

My thoughts exactly. One way of changing public opinion would be to use the same tactics that the opposition uses. Mainly taking back the airwaves and presenting unbiased information, rather than pre-chewed, here's what you should think, distillation of ideas. Unfortunately that takes tons of money and those with the money aren't going to do something that takes their own power away. Fortunately there are future gene…

> ...find their info on the internet, which isn't perfect, but at least there are many perspectives presented

But how many people will actually go out of their way to look for those perspectives? The down side of having a thousand voices speak is that you can easily listen to twenty you agree with, and ignore two hundred opponents. I know I do that a lot of the time.

Re: “Why did you shoot me? I was reading a book”

#134

Post by barking » Sun, Jul 07, 2013, 5:45 PM UTC

In my country hardly anyone has a gun but you can gamble all you want, no one gives a shit about that.

Re: “Why did you shoot me? I was reading a book”

#135

Post by chc » Sun, Jul 07, 2013, 5:50 PM UTC

kevinmchugh wrote: post #127

smky80 wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They do not "like" it. It's just that, to be very blunt, most people are basically peasants at heart. They're going to go along with whatever the king says. Twenty years ago, on that side of the line on a map, the people believed in capitalism, while on the other side the people believed in communism. On this side of the line people believed in this god, on that side, they believe in that god. It has nothing to do wi…

This is a somewhat ugly and self-aggrandizing view. It's easy to let people you don't know and will never meet become sub-human, but it's dangerous and harmful. The relevant xkcd is of course, http://xkcd.com/610/ . I don't presume to know why most people are not particularly vocal on these matters, but it's certainly not because they lack critical thought.

Describing them as sheep seems a lot less dehumanizing than depicting them as out of their minds with fear.

Re: “Why did you shoot me? I was reading a book”

#136

Post by chc » Sun, Jul 07, 2013, 5:51 PM UTC

mikeash wrote: post #132

nhangen wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not that America wants this, it's that the politicians we elect do not keep their promises. Those that try are forced out, shaken down, relegated to stay at the bottom of the ladder. In our current political climate, a politician must barter ethics and morality for the power to do what they promised. And by then, it's too late, they're already gone.

A few don't, but most politicians run on a platform of being tough on crime and tough on terror, then do exactly what they said they'd do.

Well, yes, but you can't elect politicians who aren't like that because that's all of them.

Re: “Why did you shoot me? I was reading a book”

#137

Post by knome » Sun, Jul 07, 2013, 5:51 PM UTC

gaius wrote: post #122

mikeash wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sadly, yes, it is the America that America wants, as far as I can tell. I think this is where efforts to fight these problems fall down. They're almost all based on the assumption that the populace doesn't want this stuff to happen, but that the government pushes it through by abusing power, subverting democracy, etc. But from what I see, this is not the case. Most Americans want this. Whether it's gun-wielding mania…

What fascinates me about this is that the SWAT team and the spies are people too. Which sounds obvious but it isn't. Take a guy off the street and he believes about himself, and the government believes about him, that he needs to be surveilled constantly and if he acts suspiciously, violently confronted. But what if that guy is a bureaucrat or a policeman himself? What happens in the recruitment/training process to t…

Bad things happen to other people, and sometimes it's easier to get their job done if they skirt the rules a bit. The target-du-jour would be fine if they hadn't been doing activity-du-jour anyways, so it's not like the person didn't deserve it.

Few believe that it will happen to them.

Humans are really good at denial, rationalization and ignoring the plight of people they do not directly care about.

It's a damning combination.

Re: “Why did you shoot me? I was reading a book”

#138

Post by HSO » Sun, Jul 07, 2013, 5:52 PM UTC

apineda wrote: post #126

smky80 wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They do not "like" it. It's just that, to be very blunt, most people are basically peasants at heart. They're going to go along with whatever the king says. Twenty years ago, on that side of the line on a map, the people believed in capitalism, while on the other side the people believed in communism. On this side of the line people believed in this god, on that side, they believe in that god. It has nothing to do wi…

Blame our compulsory state education? http://school.neocities.org/

You think trained submission to authority is scary? How about being trained for constantly being monitored and brain washed?

[…] as much as the program offers freedom and continuity, it also comes with a substantial monitoring component. The iPad keeps teachers and parents constantly informed about what children are doing, what they have learned and how they are progressing.

Better technology in education is clearly the future and, in many ways, the way to go. The mind boggles with possibilities. But, but… we need to put much more thought into it than just the implementation of another nifty feature. We also need better laws and regulations that constrain the authority of the, uhm, authorities. And a government we can trust would be nice too.

The way things stand today, this article just scared the bejesus out of me.

_______________________________________

[1] M. Evers. Radical reform: Dutch iPad schools seek to transform education. Der Spiegel, Jun 28 2013. (http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/new-ipad-schools-...)

Re: “Why did you shoot me? I was reading a book”

#139

Post by endtime » Sun, Jul 07, 2013, 5:52 PM UTC

kevinmchugh wrote: post #127

smky80 wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They do not "like" it. It's just that, to be very blunt, most people are basically peasants at heart. They're going to go along with whatever the king says. Twenty years ago, on that side of the line on a map, the people believed in capitalism, while on the other side the people believed in communism. On this side of the line people believed in this god, on that side, they believe in that god. It has nothing to do wi…

This is a somewhat ugly and self-aggrandizing view. It's easy to let people you don't know and will never meet become sub-human, but it's dangerous and harmful. The relevant xkcd is of course, http://xkcd.com/610/ . I don't presume to know why most people are not particularly vocal on these matters, but it's certainly not because they lack critical thought.

Do you have an explanation for why OP is wrong beyond that you find his claim aesthetically displeasing?

Re: “Why did you shoot me? I was reading a book”

#140

Post by hammerzeit » Sun, Jul 07, 2013, 5:53 PM UTC

wavefunction wrote: post #121

hammerzeit wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm astonished by the total lack of conversation around the actual data here. Both the article itself and the discussion below are predicated on the assumption that this is a rampant problem in the USA, but not a single subthread on the actual incidence of this. I'd expect better from Hacker News. For what it's worth, Wikipedia has a complete list of people killed by US Police Officers and the police reports from the…

We (US residents) haven't posted annotated lists because this is in our face via newspapers and TV news and viral videos passed around on the Internet. http://hiphopandpolitics.wordpress.com/2012/04/06/29-black-p... Here's one take, which is focused on black folks shot and killed over the past year. Note how many were armed.

I'm american as well.

When TV news and viral videos and newspapers make us feel like terrorism or kidnapping is more prevalent than it actually is, we call it sensationalism. Why is this any different? Is it because it confirms things you already believe to be true?

I looked at the list you provided, and tried to correlate it against the Wikipedia list. Many of the dates etc don't match up but I tried. A number of the cases where the suspect is listed as "unarmed" don't jive with the police reports, at the very least. Others involve things that are clearly assault even if there was no gun (like assaulting someone with a car).

That said, I do think in particular if you are a black male you are likely to be mistreated by police. That's not justifiable. But I still don't see real evidence that this is an epidemic or particularly pervasive.