Honestly I would like to see some spectacular failures. Just as Gwynne stated recently, if SpaceX doesn't generate a few craters with this program during testing it means they aren't trying as hard as they can. I'm glad Grasshopper will have its flight ceiling lifted soon with the new testing facility. Not to say a 100% flight record wouldn't be fantastic, but I'd really enjoy seeing the trend of doubling height to c…
Failures don't have to be spectacular to be useful. One of the nice things about a reusable vehicle (and one reason why rockets are so much more expensive than aircraft to develop) is that you can test things incrementally, such that a failure in whatever new thing you're trying won't doom the system as a whole. Look at the Apollo program, for example. I doubt anyone would say they weren't trying as hard as they coul…
SpaceX's Grasshopper Successfully Flew 325 Metres
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Re: SpaceX's Grasshopper Successfully Flew 325 Metres
#22Re: SpaceX's Grasshopper Successfully Flew 325 Metres
#23Could anyone explain why this is a good way to fly a spacecraft/what they are aiming for with this? It seems somewhat inelegant, considering the challenges having to do with stabilizing a vertical rocket.
We have tried engineering more complex re-usable lifting body type designs, only the shuttle ended up flying, and it wasn't cost effective.
Re: SpaceX's Grasshopper Successfully Flew 325 Metres
#24Could anyone explain why this is a good way to fly a spacecraft/what they are aiming for with this? It seems somewhat inelegant, considering the challenges having to do with stabilizing a vertical rocket.
Re: SpaceX's Grasshopper Successfully Flew 325 Metres
#25Earlier quoted context omitted.
Failures don't have to be spectacular to be useful. One of the nice things about a reusable vehicle (and one reason why rockets are so much more expensive than aircraft to develop) is that you can test things incrementally, such that a failure in whatever new thing you're trying won't doom the system as a whole. Look at the Apollo program, for example. I doubt anyone would say they weren't trying as hard as they coul…
Expanding on your post, the previous Falcon 9 launch had an unplanned engine shutdown in the first stage.
Re: SpaceX's Grasshopper Successfully Flew 325 Metres
#26Could anyone explain why this is a good way to fly a spacecraft/what they are aiming for with this? It seems somewhat inelegant, considering the challenges having to do with stabilizing a vertical rocket.
It's extremely difficult to land large payloads on Mars unless you have a controlled rocket descent like SpaceX is building with Grasshopper. Check out the way NASA lands small rovers on Mars and imagine trying to build a colony of 80,000 people like that: not gonna happen.
Re: SpaceX's Grasshopper Successfully Flew 325 Metres
#27Could anyone explain why this is a good way to fly a spacecraft/what they are aiming for with this? It seems somewhat inelegant, considering the challenges having to do with stabilizing a vertical rocket.
It's elegant because you "just" have to strap landing gear and some parachutes to your existing rockets and you can reuse them. You lose some payload capacity, but you get to use your rocket again (which is the expensive part). We have tried engineering more complex re-usable lifting body type designs, only the shuttle ended up flying, and it wasn't cost effective.
Re: SpaceX's Grasshopper Successfully Flew 325 Metres
#28Could anyone explain why this is a good way to fly a spacecraft/what they are aiming for with this? It seems somewhat inelegant, considering the challenges having to do with stabilizing a vertical rocket.
Parachutes have lots of trouble. The rate of descent they achieve is still fairly fast, so you need something to brake the descent at the end.
This is why various American capsules splashed into the ocean, as well as the Shuttle boosters, because the water acts as a cushion. However, dunking your delicate rocket in salt water is a bad idea. The American capsules weren't reused, and the Shuttle boosters required enough refurbishment afterwards as to make it not really worth recovering them.
You can land on land, but then you need some seriously hefty landing gear, or retro-rockets. The Soviets use retro-rockets fired at the last moment to recover their capsules on land. A rocket has problems that a capsule does not, though, namely that you need to keep it from tipping over once it lands! You can make a capsule fat, but a rocket really needs to be tall and thin, and any sort of horizontal velocity will have it falling on its side. You also have very little control over where the rocket comes to a rest. Again, tolerable for a capsule, but dropping your rocket into a forest is not going to be conducive to reusability.
You can add wings, like the Shuttle did, and land horizontally. Trouble with that is that wings are extremely heavy. Each pound of wing in the Shuttle was a pound of payload it couldn't carry. If you try to fit every stage of a rocket with wings so it can come back and land, you'll end up not having much excess capacity left over to actually carry a payload. Wings are great for aircraft, when you can use them to efficiently fight gravity for the whole flight. But they suck for spacecraft, where they don't help at all on the way up, and are just dead weight for most of the flight.
So landing a rocket vertically on its engines isn't really all that bad in the end. Inelegant, perhaps, but it has a lot of advantages. You get absolute control over where the rocket lands. You can land it as softly as you like. You can ensure that it touches down with no horizontal velocity so as not to tip over. You use the same engines that you used for the launch, so there's no extra weight there. The only real downsides are the need for some sort of landing gear, and the need to carry a bit of extra fuel. Neither one is all that bad.
When considering the stability, don't make the common mistake of comparing it to balancing a pencil. When the rocket turns, the motors turn as well, so it is not inherently unstable the way you might think. Rather, the stability is neutral: if you perturb the rocket, it will just stay in its new position, not returning to how it was before, but neither does it run farther away. A rocket that's slightly tilted will stay slightly tilted (gradually accelerating sideways, of course), it won't tilt over further the way a pencil does.
Note that Robert Goddard made this same error. He built his first rocket with the engines at the top, believing this would help with stability. So if you were thinking that way, don't feel bad: the father of modern rocketry did the same thing!
Re: SpaceX's Grasshopper Successfully Flew 325 Metres
#29Could anyone explain why this is a good way to fly a spacecraft/what they are aiming for with this? It seems somewhat inelegant, considering the challenges having to do with stabilizing a vertical rocket.
Well, how else do you recover a rocket intact? Parachutes have lots of trouble. The rate of descent they achieve is still fairly fast, so you need something to brake the descent at the end. This is why various American capsules splashed into the ocean, as well as the Shuttle boosters, because the water acts as a cushion. However, dunking your delicate rocket in salt water is a bad idea. The American capsules weren't…
Could be that the weight savings in fuel aren't enough for that choice, or that there are other good reasons not to (added complexity, potential non-reusable components)
[1] Although, aeronautics is famously non-intuitive, so ymmv.
Re: SpaceX's Grasshopper Successfully Flew 325 Metres
#30Armadillo did this, and cooler already :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9u0qlIoSSkQ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_Xiq3dYJlM#ws