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Rare Cancer Seen In 41 Homosexuals (1981)

nytimes.com

111–120 of 151 posts

Re: Rare Cancer Seen In 41 Homosexuals (1981)

#111

An article like this makes you wonder how many different diseases (answer - over 200) get lumped together under the large "cancer" umbrella. One wonders if we are doing ourselves a disservice maintaining a term more inline with shared symptoms instead of separating the diseases into shared causes. At any rate I'm digressing, but cancer is a fascinating (while horrible) concept that exists in our reality. When you thi…

The diagnosis of Kaposi's Sarcoma was accurate and precise. There was no problem with too much getting "lumped together".

The problem was that they didn't know the cause of the Kaposi's Sarcoma outbreak. They correctly suspected a virus caused the outbreak.

Re: Rare Cancer Seen In 41 Homosexuals (1981)

#112
post #89
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kary Mullis, the inventor of polymerase chain reaction, is an HIV denialist.

Using word 'denialist' in connection with scientific hypothesis seems somehow wrong.

When the overwhelming body of evidence points to something, denialist seems appropriate. e.g. climate change denialist.

There was a reasonable case for HIV is not the cause of AIDS for a while in the 90s, but everything that pointed that way was overturned by further inquiry.

I met an HIV causes AIDS denialist once in university, so I did a bunch of research so find out if he was a crackpot or not. Things may have changed since I looked, but in 2007 there was no credible evidence I could find to suggest that HIV isn't the cause of AIDS.

Re: Rare Cancer Seen In 41 Homosexuals (1981)

#113

An article like this makes you wonder how many different diseases (answer - over 200) get lumped together under the large "cancer" umbrella. One wonders if we are doing ourselves a disservice maintaining a term more inline with shared symptoms instead of separating the diseases into shared causes. At any rate I'm digressing, but cancer is a fascinating (while horrible) concept that exists in our reality. When you thi…

> The fact that it was a "gay disease" hampered everything about our response to it. Why "gay disease" in quotes? Was it not a disease with origins exclusively in gays?

The first-world people with access to world class health care that contracted it in urban environments were gay. Origins however, are a bit more murky.

Most of the worlds population don't have the financial resources or the proximity to say, the UCSF medical hospital, where such specialty physicians would be to study such a thing.

There's been quite a bit of discussion of how it got to Christopher Street in New York. My pet theory is that the international drug trade had quite a bit to do with it, but I'm just a computer programmer

Re: Rare Cancer Seen In 41 Homosexuals (1981)

#114
post #86
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They show up here every so often: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5317157 and http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=231238 There's even a wikipedia page with a horrible URL that made me think wikipedia suddenly had hierarchical categories: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HIV/AIDS_denialism Gotta keep speaking truth to crazy.

Some people have a strong contrarian streak which naturally leads them toward the minority position on many controversial subjects. It's often the exact same people saying that AIDS isn't caused by HIV, that global warming is a fraud, that oil reserves are infinite, that evolution is impossible, etc. etc. I've witnessed this firsthand. I can't explain why they are this way, but it looks like a general attitude of "th…

There are also some paranoid people who use encryption because secret services could be spying on them. We have no idea how aids causes hiv, cannot even predict weather for next week, but we are 110% sure some theories are right.

No wonder, it is waste of money to get phd today

Re: Rare Cancer Seen In 41 Homosexuals (1981)

#115

Wow, this is back when it was called GRID.

This is back before it was discovered to be an immune deficiency.

Being a little picky, GRID (Gay Related Immune Deficiency) was certainly thought to be an immune deficiency.

But they didn't know it was acquired, or that it was a virus, or that it wasn't just gay related, or anything else much.

Re: Rare Cancer Seen In 41 Homosexuals (1981)

#116
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow! I love Forrest Gump and I've seen it a few times at least, but I never realized the connection to AIDS. Thanks.

I wonder if it's the younger YN crowd that is not seeing the connection? I was pretty young when I saw that movie in 1994, but it never occurred to me that it could be anything other than AIDS; the reference was completely unambiguous. I guess things had changed in the 12 years between the coinage of "AIDS" and that movie, but it still resembled the way people talked about it, and I think the memory of not knowing wh…

It could be a cultural thing also. I watched the movie in Africa as a kid. AIDS was everywhere, the reference in the movie immediately jumped at me.

Re: Rare Cancer Seen In 41 Homosexuals (1981)

#117
post #86
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They show up here every so often: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5317157 and http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=231238 There's even a wikipedia page with a horrible URL that made me think wikipedia suddenly had hierarchical categories: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HIV/AIDS_denialism Gotta keep speaking truth to crazy.

Some people have a strong contrarian streak which naturally leads them toward the minority position on many controversial subjects. It's often the exact same people saying that AIDS isn't caused by HIV, that global warming is a fraud, that oil reserves are infinite, that evolution is impossible, etc. etc. I've witnessed this firsthand. I can't explain why they are this way, but it looks like a general attitude of "th…

You can lump all of your anti-favorite topics together and pretend they are similar. Just know that there are also people lumping you into their groups of crazy people based on one or two things that you believe and they don't.

Humans (scientists, doctors, politicians, internet commenters) like to pretend that we know so much about the universe and we just need to fill in a few details to fully grasp everything. This kind of thinking is dangerous at best.

It seems to me every time mankind fixes one problem they create a new one that they have to figure out how to solve.

Re: Rare Cancer Seen In 41 Homosexuals (1981)

#118
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kary Mullis, the inventor of polymerase chain reaction, is an HIV denialist.

Serge Lang as well. I don't know enough about the topic to evaluate his critiques, but they certainly don't sound crazy. http://www.virusmyth.com/aids/hiv/slquestions.htm

It doesn't sound crazy, because he spends 90% of the essay more or less arguing semantics. As he says, AIDS isn't a disease. It's a syndrome. And the diseases which do the damage aren't caused by the HIV virus. He just points that out like it's something which no-one else is brave enough to mention, when he's really just attacking strawmen.

The really crazy bits are when he talks about whether or not HIV can damage the immune system, by killing T-Cells. I counted 8 mentions of the word "immune", and 7 mentions of the word "T-cell"; and he only mentions them halfway through the document.

Because of the complicated chain of causality (untreated HIV eventually wipes out the immune system, which causes a whole bunch of weird diseases to take hold), it's easy to write thousands of words about why rare diseases (which are called AIDS, in HIV positive patients) are only correlated with HIV, not necessarily caused by it. But in the middle of the article, the crazy bits are there.

It's like reading a long rambling article about why CO2 doesn't necessarily cause global warming (which has a grain of truth to it - it's a little more complicated than that with the role of positive and negative feedback effects), and halfway through the article the author suddenly mentions the greenhouse effect for the first time, then says it's unfounded (which changes the article from slightly crackpot to stark raving mad) .

Re: Rare Cancer Seen In 41 Homosexuals (1981)

#119

An article like this makes you wonder how many different diseases (answer - over 200) get lumped together under the large "cancer" umbrella. One wonders if we are doing ourselves a disservice maintaining a term more inline with shared symptoms instead of separating the diseases into shared causes. At any rate I'm digressing, but cancer is a fascinating (while horrible) concept that exists in our reality. When you thi…

> The fact that it was a "gay disease" hampered everything about our response to it. Why "gay disease" in quotes? Was it not a disease with origins exclusively in gays?

From Wiki: At one point, the CDC coined the phrase "the 4H disease", since the syndrome seemed to affect Haitians, homosexuals, hemophiliacs, and heroin users. In the general press, the term "GRID", which stood for gay-related immune deficiency, had been coined.[180] However, after determining that AIDS was not isolated to the gay community,[178] it was realized that the term GRID was misleading and the term AIDS was introduced at a meeting in July 1982.[181] By September 1982 the CDC started referring to the disease as AIDS.[182]

Re: Rare Cancer Seen In 41 Homosexuals (1981)

#120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's really going to blow your mind is the statistics on who gets HIV infections in the United States today: http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/statistics/basics/ataglance.html What an un-PC virus. Doesn't it know we're living in 2013? I'm told reality is supposed to have a liberal bias now.

Yes, unfortunately science is rarely PC. Behavior and genetics are by far the strongest determinants of your risk for acquiring HIV. No parade, protest, or law will change that.

Physician here: maybe you could enlighten us all on studies showing "genetics" are "strongest" determinants of "your risk for acquiring HIV."

Are you actually trying to advance the theory that the "genetics" of a particular minority group is a "determinant", rather than social class?

A lack of socioeconomic resources is linked to the practice of riskier health behaviors, which can lead to the contraction of HIV. These behaviors include earlier initiation of sexual activity and less frequent use of condoms (Adler, 2006).

Unstable housing has been linked to risk for HIV infection, including IV drug use and unsafe sexual behaviors (Aidala, Cross, Stall, Harre, & Sumartojo, 2005).

Individuals who are homeless or in unstable housing arrangements are significantly more likely to be infected with HIV compared to individuals in more stable housing environments (Culhane, Gollub, Kuhn, & Shpaner, 2001).

Lack of socioeconomic resources is also associated with risk factors for neuropsychiatric dysfunction, such as exposure to environmental toxins and injuries. These factors can make persons with HIV more vulnerable to the central nervous system effects of the virus, including more rapid cognitive decline and onset of dementia (Satz, 1993).

HIV status often has a negative impact on socioeconomic status by constraining an individual’s ability to work and earn income. Research indicates that up to 45 percent of people living with HIV are unemployed (Rabkin, McElhiney, Ferrando, Van Gorp, & Lin, 2004).

The effects of HIV on physical and mental functioning can make maintaining regular employment difficult. Patients with HIV infection may also find that their work responsibilities compete with their health care needs. Individuals infected with HIV are often discriminated against in the workplace, leading to their termination or forced resignation (Dray-Spira, Lert, Marimoutou, Bouhnik, & Obadia, 2003; Kass et al., 1994).

Children infected with HIV often exhibit cognitive deficits when compared with their uninfected peers (Martin et al., 2006). These deficits can adversely affect learning and earning ability later in life.

SES status often determines access to HIV treatment. Individuals of low SES have delayed treatment initiation relative to more affluent patients, reducing their chances of survival (Joy et al., 2008).

Patients of lower SES with HIV have increased morbidity and mortality rates. Research suggests a correlation between low SES and earlier death from HIV/AIDS (Cunningham et al., 2005).

Accordingly, individuals of higher SES levels experience slower progression of HIV infection (Schechter et al., 1994).

Decreased access to health insurance and preventive services is a major contributor to health disparities between high- and low-SES individuals. Low-income individuals are not likely to have health coverage or receive optimal treatment and care for HIV/AIDS, such as Highly Active Antiretroviral Therapy (HAART) (Wood et al., 2002)

Source: http://www.apa.org/pi/ses/resources/publications/factsheet-h...

Psueodoscience and outright bigotry is "rarely PC", that's for damned sure.

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