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Hikikomori: Why are so many Japanese men refusing to leave their rooms?

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Hikikomori: Why are so many Japanese men refusing to leave their rooms?

#91

Post by paganel »

WhoIsSatoshi wrote: post #61

This isn't only in Japan, it is a phenomenon that is spreading across the globe. Japan is first hit because of the strong disparities between generations. Truth is, the internet brought about a lot of things so one could have a constant "window out" from a single room. Most of us know precisely what I am talking about. I would like to theorize that this is only one of the things that facilitate such isolation by maki…

> Back in the days, your dad might have messed up for 3 years, but the stigma never stuck because (1) people did not have proof from the network itself and (2) he was able to "snap out of it" because he wasn't constantly reminded of others great lives

I'm with you on this, my dad has actually remained "messed up" financially- and career-wise, even though he was a brilliant student and young civil construction engineer back in the day. Of course I love him and think of him as one of the smartest and most intelligent people I have ever talked to, but I cringe at the thought of what would have happened to him on an emotional level if he were to had access to Facebook, for the reasons you describe above (he and mom live in the countryside now, I've brought them an old PC some time ago but thought it best not to install them Internet).

For a possible solution, I think that at some point we will be forced to retreat from this online social mess we've become entangled in, if not by our own will maybe at least our subconscious will force us to. Could be that it's all just a craze.

Re: Hikikomori: Why are so many Japanese men refusing to leave their rooms?

#92

Post by tehwalrus »

jakejake wrote: post #12
vincie wrote: post #8

From the BBC article: "For a time one company operating in Nagoya could be hired by parents to burst into their children's rooms, give them a big dressing down, and forcibly drag them away to a dormitory to learn the error of their ways." I was just thinking of starting up something like this in Australia, but just realised the bikies (e.g., Hell's Angels, Nomad, Rebels etc) already do something very similar.

That sounds very similar to what my dad would have done. If you have time to be depressed in your room, then you have time to clean the garage. Not saying that this was a great solution and I certainly hated it at the time, but that's how I was raised. I pretty much learned that you do not want to be ever caught moping around the house, lest you be put to work!

Similarly, in my house, woe betide you if you told Dad you were bored - he would give you a list of things to do!

Re: Hikikomori: Why are so many Japanese men refusing to leave their rooms?

#93

Post by WhoIsSatoshi »

wisty wrote: post #68
WhoIsSatoshi wrote: post #61

This isn't only in Japan, it is a phenomenon that is spreading across the globe. Japan is first hit because of the strong disparities between generations. Truth is, the internet brought about a lot of things so one could have a constant "window out" from a single room. Most of us know precisely what I am talking about. I would like to theorize that this is only one of the things that facilitate such isolation by maki…

It doesn't help that a lot of people only post good stuff to Facebook. "Pictures of wife and I celebrating our anniversary!". They don't then say "We both screamed at each other for 3 hours, just after the photo was taken."

I have this friend who manages to do just the opposite. He complains that his life sucks, that he needs a job and that he's lonely and wishes he'd meet someone. This of course has the adverse effect on people: it makes them keep their distance because you're "anti-social" or a "downer". Pretty creepy to realize that your whole life can be affected so much by what you see of the world... and what the world sees of you. Television probably had a lesser impact previously, but we're entering a whole new level of social superficiality.

Re: Hikikomori: Why are so many Japanese men refusing to leave their rooms?

#94

Post by bitsoda »

This hit like a ton of bricks. There are days when I could easily identify with these Japanese men. On the days where I'm more outgoing, confident, and social, I've noticed that feeling productive -- and what I deem to be "happiness" -- go hand-in-hand. It could be something as simple as helping a friend set up their wireless router or tutoring my niece in math. It's almost as if I allow myself to be a part of society once I feel like I've earned it -- as silly as this may sound to those who haven't experienced this phenomenon. Ultimately, and I'm not saying it's a panacea, but what never fails for me is to attain some feeling of productivity or importance.

When I was a kid, my dad told me something that has always stuck with me: "Pretend like everyone you meet has the following sentence stamped on their forehead: 'I want to feel important'".

Re: Hikikomori: Why are so many Japanese men refusing to leave their rooms?

#95

Post by WhoIsSatoshi »

paganel wrote: post #91
WhoIsSatoshi wrote: post #61

This isn't only in Japan, it is a phenomenon that is spreading across the globe. Japan is first hit because of the strong disparities between generations. Truth is, the internet brought about a lot of things so one could have a constant "window out" from a single room. Most of us know precisely what I am talking about. I would like to theorize that this is only one of the things that facilitate such isolation by maki…

> Back in the days, your dad might have messed up for 3 years, but the stigma never stuck because (1) people did not have proof from the network itself and (2) he was able to "snap out of it" because he wasn't constantly reminded of others great lives I'm with you on this, my dad has actually remained "messed up" financially- and career-wise, even though he was a brilliant student and young civil construction enginee…

It could all be a craze, but I'm worried it's only the beginning of a new world order - And the last resort of this society is its most unlikely candidate: the geeks and nerds that have since times past been shunned and excluded (oh the irony!)

We have to manage a personal shift beyond that - then the people who won't let the bad weigh on their shoulder or get used to the good making their life easier will be able to exist beyond appearances, and find substance in things. I can see EST coming back in force within the next 50 years.

Re: Hikikomori: Why are so many Japanese men refusing to leave their rooms?

#96

Post by dicemoose »

patio11 wrote: post #9

Anecdotally, the phenomenon is exacerbated by many people with varying degrees of untreated depression. (A disease which Japan addresses shockingly poorly, even by the standards of Japanese mental health care, which is shockingly poor even considering that mental health care lags treatment of other illnesses virtually everywhere.)

I think it would be fair that the acceptance of mental illnesses by Japanese society still is lagging behind other developed nations.

I have close friends in Japan that have received superb support from psychiatrists once they were able to get help for their illness. They are all doing better as a result.

Re: Hikikomori: Why are so many Japanese men refusing to leave their rooms?

#97

Post by trendoid »

bitsoda wrote: post #94

This hit like a ton of bricks. There are days when I could easily identify with these Japanese men. On the days where I'm more outgoing, confident, and social, I've noticed that feeling productive -- and what I deem to be "happiness" -- go hand-in-hand. It could be something as simple as helping a friend set up their wireless router or tutoring my niece in math. It's almost as if I allow myself to be a part of societ…

I wonder what are the implications of introducing Buddhist teachings in school. What is the optimal way to introduce them so that they sink in well ? They directly target that stamp on everyone's forehead(among many other things that are wrong about society) and even though neuroscience is saying basically the same thing nowadays, for some reason most people will listen more to how Buddha expressed.

Obviously, one doesnt necessarily have to introduce them as buddhist teachings but part of some moral or character building course. Parents dont have enough time to look into all this stuff and by the time psychologists come to the scene, its already too late.

Re: Hikikomori: Why are so many Japanese men refusing to leave their rooms?

#98

Post by martincmartin »

spoiler wrote: post #84

It's a bit hurtful that they would say "teenage laziness," when it could be depression. It started when I was 12 (probably). I slowly started losing interest in doing things that I enjoyed, even more so about the things I didn't enjoy doing. By the time I was 15 I stopped caring about my future and from a straight A student I became a C/D student. When I started high school that I wanted (we have similar requirements…

"Lazy" is also what kids with ADHD are labelled. I think "lazy" is a cop-out explanation, since it doesn't actually explain anything. Often the incentives are aligned so that it's in the kid's best interest to put some effort into homework. If they're not doing it, treat it like a debugging program: why aren't they responding to the incentives? Could be depression, ADHD, perfectionism/fear of failure, or a bunch of other things.

Re: Hikikomori: Why are so many Japanese men refusing to leave their rooms?

#99

Post by mathrawka »

spoiler wrote: post #84

It's a bit hurtful that they would say "teenage laziness," when it could be depression. It started when I was 12 (probably). I slowly started losing interest in doing things that I enjoyed, even more so about the things I didn't enjoy doing. By the time I was 15 I stopped caring about my future and from a straight A student I became a C/D student. When I started high school that I wanted (we have similar requirements…

Congrats on not only seeking help (and keeping a solid friend that stuck with you through the trying down times), but your 2 month streak, may it never end!

Re: Hikikomori: Why are so many Japanese men refusing to leave their rooms?

#100

Post by laumars »

eksith wrote: post #89
laumars wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a whole other side to Japan than the flashy/noisy side of Tokyo. One of the start ups who frequents HN lives in Japan's country side and he's written some interesting blogs and comments on here about how he can go days without seeing another human aside his wife. But sadly the side of Japan that seems to be exported the most is the futuristic, over-populated scenes from Tokyo and thus many foreigners assume t…

>Japan that seems to be exported the most is the futuristic, over-populated scenes from Tokyo... Flashy loving != Flashy itself. Shiogama, for example, is primarily centered around the fishing industry. You can imagine what my friend was compelled to get into when he had his heart set elsewhere. Since the tsunami cut deep into the family income, he was a little more accepting of their needs and slowly, but surely, he…

> Flashy loving != Flashy itself.

I was only quoting the previous commenter there :)

> Shiogama, for example, is primarily centered around the fishing industry. You can imagine what my friend was compelled to get into when he had his heart set elsewhere. Since the tsunami cut deep into the family income, he was a little more accepting of their needs and slowly, but surely, he's growing out of it. It may take years for him to fully integrate into society though.

That was actually my point. That there's a whole side to Japan that isn't like the western culture perceives.

> Also, people need to stop thinking of Tokyo as a "city". It's big and varied enough to be a "county" in the Western sense.

To be fair, that's true for many large cities - even in the west.

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