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Hikikomori: Why are so many Japanese men refusing to leave their rooms?

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Hikikomori: Why are so many Japanese men refusing to leave their rooms?

#11

Post by mililani »

I think the simplest explanation is the one always ignored. Japan is a tough place to live and raise a family. It's super expensive, the economy has been in a funk for a long time, the work hours are widely known to be brutally long, people don't know anything but work and sleep over there. When one is confronted by this harsh reality, one wonders, what's the point? So they either commit suicide, which Japan ranks amongst the highest in the world, or they just withdraw from society.

And look at Japan's demographic trends. It's like all of the young people just said to hell with it and are not procreating anymore. I don't blame them either. If all I had to look forward to in life is a meaningless existence of an 80 hr work week to support a small family, I would probably not even go there.

Re: Hikikomori: Why are so many Japanese men refusing to leave their rooms?

#12

Post by jakejake »

vincie wrote: post #8

From the BBC article: "For a time one company operating in Nagoya could be hired by parents to burst into their children's rooms, give them a big dressing down, and forcibly drag them away to a dormitory to learn the error of their ways." I was just thinking of starting up something like this in Australia, but just realised the bikies (e.g., Hell's Angels, Nomad, Rebels etc) already do something very similar.

That sounds very similar to what my dad would have done. If you have time to be depressed in your room, then you have time to clean the garage. Not saying that this was a great solution and I certainly hated it at the time, but that's how I was raised. I pretty much learned that you do not want to be ever caught moping around the house, lest you be put to work!

Re: Hikikomori: Why are so many Japanese men refusing to leave their rooms?

#13

Post by ekianjo »

mililani wrote: post #11

I think the simplest explanation is the one always ignored. Japan is a tough place to live and raise a family. It's super expensive, the economy has been in a funk for a long time, the work hours are widely known to be brutally long, people don't know anything but work and sleep over there. When one is confronted by this harsh reality, one wonders, what's the point? So they either commit suicide, which Japan ranks am…

I think you ignore the fact that parents accept the phenomenon and don't do anything about it. They let their children become apathetic and do not take action. I see that numerous times in Japan (I live here) where there is a clear detachment between family members and an agreement that they should not influence each other's lives.

Re: Hikikomori: Why are so many Japanese men refusing to leave their rooms?

#14

Post by mathrawka »

"I was very well mentally, but my parents pushed me the way I didn't want to go," he says. "My father is an artist and he runs his own business - he wanted me to do the same." But Matsu wanted to become a computer programmer in a large firm - one of corporate Japan's army of "salarymen. But my father said: 'In the future there won't be a society like that.' He said: 'Don't become a salaryman.'"

Starting your own SaaS/app/startup isn't that common for Japanese people, but it is starting to pick up more steam over the past few years. Sounds like his father would be happy to know what he can do with his computer skills if he expands out to becoming an entrepreneur.

A bit of a wasted opportunity there, that I wish someone could have explained the opportunities available to him instead of becoming hikikomori.

Re: Hikikomori: Why are so many Japanese men refusing to leave their rooms?

#15

Post by [deleted] »

jamesaguilar wrote: post #6
jmduke wrote: post #4

Hikikomori might be a Japanese term, but its not a Japanese phenomenon. I know dozens of my American friends who do the same thing -- hide from seemingly unprecedented expectations and similarly daunting odds, hide from society in alcohol, in television, in dual 2560x1600 monitors, even in exercise. (My room was video games, and I'm glad I found the doorknob.)

Hrm. There are shut-ins and hermits everywhere. It is not endemic everywhere like it is in Japan. I think, "I know an instance of X, therefore X is not a Y phenomenon," might be oversimplifying just a tad. If the rates of incidence are different, and everything I've read leads me to believe they are, that is interesting -- mainly because it adds entropy that might be useful in understanding the cause.

[deleted]

Re: Hikikomori: Why are so many Japanese men refusing to leave their rooms?

#16

Post by anigbrowl »

ekianjo wrote: post #13
mililani wrote: post #11

I think the simplest explanation is the one always ignored. Japan is a tough place to live and raise a family. It's super expensive, the economy has been in a funk for a long time, the work hours are widely known to be brutally long, people don't know anything but work and sleep over there. When one is confronted by this harsh reality, one wonders, what's the point? So they either commit suicide, which Japan ranks am…

I think you ignore the fact that parents accept the phenomenon and don't do anything about it. They let their children become apathetic and do not take action. I see that numerous times in Japan (I live here) where there is a clear detachment between family members and an agreement that they should not influence each other's lives.

You mean family members actually respect each others' choices, even though they may seem dysfunctional? That sounds rather positive to me.

Re: Hikikomori: Why are so many Japanese men refusing to leave their rooms?

#17

Post by patio11 »

mathrawka wrote: post #14

"I was very well mentally, but my parents pushed me the way I didn't want to go," he says. "My father is an artist and he runs his own business - he wanted me to do the same." But Matsu wanted to become a computer programmer in a large firm - one of corporate Japan's army of "salarymen. But my father said: 'In the future there won't be a society like that.' He said: 'Don't become a salaryman.'" Starting your own SaaS…

I know a few people in my generation who "opted out" of The Offer (+) who eventually found themselves doing web freelancing. There are social difficulties involved in doing it, but they're successful and MUCH happier with it than they were in their brief forays to salarymandom.

We'll be getting together for our college club annual reunion in September and once more trying to tell kids "Hey guys, if the salaryman thing doesn't pan out, we'll take you out to coffee and tell you about some other options." Many middle class Japanese kids have literally never heard that once in their entire lives.

+ Roughly 30% of Japanese society, mostly middle class and male, has this life plan in place from birth: You will study extraordinarily hard and test into a good high school. You will then study extraordinarily hard and test into a good university. You will be hired by a large Japanese megacorp along with 200 people from your university. You will then be a salaryman, owned body and soul by your company, and worked in conditions which resemble indentured servitude for roughly your first 20 to 25 years. In return, you will be promoted in lockstep with the rest of your entering class, you will never be fired, and you will be awarded social status and security with the guarantee of neither of them ever being imperiled by virtually anything.

Re: Hikikomori: Why are so many Japanese men refusing to leave their rooms?

#18

Post by smtddr »

jmduke wrote: post #4

Hikikomori might be a Japanese term, but its not a Japanese phenomenon. I know dozens of my American friends who do the same thing -- hide from seemingly unprecedented expectations and similarly daunting odds, hide from society in alcohol, in television, in dual 2560x1600 monitors, even in exercise. (My room was video games, and I'm glad I found the doorknob.)

What's going on in Japan is a bit more severe than the western world's version. It came to a point where videos like these were made - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSq0XOHxJsQ Note the top comment made 4 years ago. While depression definitely exists globally, I don't think I've heard of videos like these being made for any place other than Japan. If I'm wrong though, please correct me.

Re: Hikikomori: Why are so many Japanese men refusing to leave their rooms?

#19

Post by unsignedint »

Honestly, I don't know if I'd blame them. Japanese society, particularly with regard to sociological structure has a lot to be desired.

Recruiting practice heavily centered to "new graduates" (which means if you don't get hired in the year you are graduating, you are screwed.)

Even if you do land on a job, then unpaid overtime being norm rather than exception.

Across the field, quality of output from any jobs in Japan are insanely high compared to many of countries; and basically workers end up paying the cost of that. (and many of them involving unpaid hours and over the top expectations) And I can certainly understand people exhausted to end up in the state of "Hikikomori."

It is a nice place to visit, but living there can be tough...

Re: Hikikomori: Why are so many Japanese men refusing to leave their rooms?

#20

Post by omegant »

ekianjo wrote: post #13
mililani wrote: post #11

I think the simplest explanation is the one always ignored. Japan is a tough place to live and raise a family. It's super expensive, the economy has been in a funk for a long time, the work hours are widely known to be brutally long, people don't know anything but work and sleep over there. When one is confronted by this harsh reality, one wonders, what's the point? So they either commit suicide, which Japan ranks am…

I think you ignore the fact that parents accept the phenomenon and don't do anything about it. They let their children become apathetic and do not take action. I see that numerous times in Japan (I live here) where there is a clear detachment between family members and an agreement that they should not influence each other's lives.

Maybe they don't really know how to act about it. After all (and I am just guessing here) tradition doesn't teach how to help this people.
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