Live data from Hacker News

A chimp-pig hybrid origin for humans?

m.phys.org

11–20 of 89 posts

Re: A chimp-pig hybrid origin for humans?

#11
Extremely interesting. I suggest you to read the article at http://www.macroevolution.net/human-origins.html

The author seems to be a well-established scientist, and the arguments are quite plausible, given that this level of hybridization actually could be possible. What I find amazing (based on the article) is that hybridization hasn't really been researched very well, and that hybrids aren't actually infertile, on the contrary to popular belief.

As the article points out, this indeed sounds as ridiculous as Darwin's proposal that humans descend from apes.

Re: A chimp-pig hybrid origin for humans?

#12
post #4

My gut feel is that this is bat-shit crazy, but wouldn't it be amusing to see the response from the Jewish and Islamic world should it turn out that humans are pig hybrids? ;)

Vindication? The broad (though not universal) taboo against eating primate meat has some basis in the higher risk of shared/cross-species diseases, due to a closer genetic relationship. If there's a little pig in us, that'd argue for stronger taboos against eating pork... exactly as in Judaism and Islam.

Yes - I think many religious taboos have their basis in sensible food hygiene and incest avoidance. But that's not how it's pitched; often the claim is that "pigs are unclean".

Which is why it'd be funny.

Re: A chimp-pig hybrid origin for humans?

#15
post #11

Extremely interesting. I suggest you to read the article at http://www.macroevolution.net/human-origins.html The author seems to be a well-established scientist, and the arguments are quite plausible, given that this level of hybridization actually could be possible. What I find amazing (based on the article) is that hybridization hasn't really been researched very well, and that hybrids aren't actually infertile, on…

Many hybrids are infertile. There are some documented cases of fertile hybrids in very related animals and very related plants (plants are weird!). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid_(biology)#Hybrid_species

But and hybrid between a chimp and a pig: simply no way! Even creating a live pig-chimp hybrid is probably almost impossible, a fertile pig-chimp hybrid would be a miracle.

Re: A chimp-pig hybrid origin for humans?

#16

There's at least one fairly well-know biology professor/blogger who is unimpressed with what he dubs the "MFAP" hypothesis: http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2013/07/02/the-mfap-h...

The thing I find most depressing about these crackpots is that some otherwise productive scientist has to spend an evening debunking their nonsense. And it still doesn't stop.

I taught evolution for undergrads, and occasionally had to deal with these issues from students. It takes time to look into them, and no matter how thoroughly debunked the theory, some kids find them too irresistible to let go of. It undermines real education in the end.

Re: A chimp-pig hybrid origin for humans?

#18
post #11

Extremely interesting. I suggest you to read the article at http://www.macroevolution.net/human-origins.html The author seems to be a well-established scientist, and the arguments are quite plausible, given that this level of hybridization actually could be possible. What I find amazing (based on the article) is that hybridization hasn't really been researched very well, and that hybrids aren't actually infertile, on…

Many hybrids are infertile. There are some documented cases of fertile hybrids in very related animals and very related plants (plants are weird!). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid_(biology)#Hybrid_species But and hybrid between a chimp and a pig: simply no way! Even creating a live pig-chimp hybrid is probably almost impossible, a fertile pig-chimp hybrid would be a miracle.

This. The author makes the absurd claim that because many hybrids are fertile, any hybrid could be fertile. Using hybridization between two closely related birds to support the notion that pigs and apes could breed is ridiculous.

Re: A chimp-pig hybrid origin for humans?

#19
So colour me skeptical. As they say, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and this theory is making several extraordinary claims:

1) A hybridization event indeed occurred in the relatively recent genetic history of homo sapiens (rather than the unusual anatomic features being produced some other way).

2) The hybridization was with a close relative of pigs (rather than another family that has some similar characteristics, or multiple hybridizations that together gave us the unusual characteristics).

3) The hybridization marks the point at which hominids split from the other primates (rather than occurring later in one branch of the hominid family tree).

4) That the genes introduced by hybridization gives hominids their unique characteristics (rather than being inconsequential).

In return, the theory presents evidence (anatomic oddities and low fertility) that I would characterize as "interesting" and perhaps "worthy of further study", but certainly not extraordinary. For this to be plausible, there needs to be a second avenue of evidence, one not based on anatomic similarities...

That second avenue could be genetic, but they specifically dismiss it, presupposing a mechanism, backcrossing, that leaves little genetic evidence that it occurred. Now, I'm no geneticist, but that sounds a bit fishy to me.

Re: A chimp-pig hybrid origin for humans?

#20
post #11

Extremely interesting. I suggest you to read the article at http://www.macroevolution.net/human-origins.html The author seems to be a well-established scientist, and the arguments are quite plausible, given that this level of hybridization actually could be possible. What I find amazing (based on the article) is that hybridization hasn't really been researched very well, and that hybrids aren't actually infertile, on…

Many hybrids are infertile. There are some documented cases of fertile hybrids in very related animals and very related plants (plants are weird!). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid_(biology)#Hybrid_species But and hybrid between a chimp and a pig: simply no way! Even creating a live pig-chimp hybrid is probably almost impossible, a fertile pig-chimp hybrid would be a miracle.

It doesn't matter that fertile hybrids are unusual. For evaluating this theory, it only has to be possible to produce a fertile chimp-pig hybrid. Then, given a large number of chimp-pig... interactions, you can then assume that eventually one would be successful.

(That said, before you interpret this as me supporting the theory, please read my top-level comment)

Post reply on HN