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Bolivia says Morales' plane diverted, apparently over Snowden

reuters.com

21–30 of 78 posts

Re: Bolivia says Morales' plane diverted, apparently over Snowden

#21
post #6

That tells a lot about all these European countries that are just puppets of the US government,especially France where I come from... Maybe we should stop the hypocrisy and let Washington govern us directly, we could save a lot of money this way.

This was actually briefly discussed between the UK and US in the 70s: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wilson-wanted-uk-to-be-us-...

That's funny, going from wanting to be the US' "51st state" to not even wanting to be a full EU member, which I think makes a lot more sense (to be one).

Re: Bolivia says Morales' plane diverted, apparently over Snowden

#22
post #13

Guardian is doing pretty good live reporting on this fascinating story: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jul/03/edward-snowden-a...

It's funny how this story goes international. From Hong Kong/Peking to Moskow, to Austria/France, to Venezuela.

It's good that just like with the Wikileaks scandal, it exposes which countries are vassals to US.

Re: Bolivia says Morales' plane diverted, apparently over Snowden

#23
post #20
post #9

Did the US just facilitate Snowden's asylum? They seem to be locked in eternal overreach.

They don't seem to be handling this very intelligently, more like a bully than anything else. It would be much easier to let Snowden get to a country in southamerica and then after some weeks press under the table to get him arrested. Now doing all this pressing all they get is Snowden in China or Russia's arms.

If you assume the goal of all this is to deter future leaks, I'd say they are doing a pretty good job. Snowden has so much uncertainty and risk in the next few weeks that I bet borderline whistle-blowers are rethinking their plan.

Arresting him quietly without the media gets them Snowden, but not the deterrent.

Re: Bolivia says Morales' plane diverted, apparently over Snowden

#24
post #19
post #9

Did the US just facilitate Snowden's asylum? They seem to be locked in eternal overreach.

Yeah tell that to Kim Dotcom. The US seemingly have no respect for sovereignty or foreign process.

In both cases they seem to be overplaying their hand. Dotcom has a very real chance of getting off largely because the way it was handled have included such blatant disregard for the law. E.g. without the revelations of illegal spying, and the massive overkill of the way his arrest was handled, it might have been a lot easier to gentle "suggest" things to a judge and make the whole thing go away. Instead they've ensured that it's really hard for the judges involved to not treat this seriously.

Same with Snowden - creating a diplomatic incident that now has pretty much every Latin American leader screaming bloody murder and have officials describing it as virtually a kidnapping, and complaining about colonialism, means European countries and others will quickly start seeing that there's a very high potential price to pay for bending to US demands in this, in a case where they likely have little sympathy to the US position in the first place given that pretty much all of them have faced revelations of US spying targeting them. If the US keeps pushing like that, they might just find that someone will snap and decide to tell them to go to hell.

It'll be interesting to see if they manage the balancing act of pushing just hard enough to keep everyone in line without pushing anyone too far.

Re: Bolivia says Morales' plane diverted, apparently over Snowden

#25
post #14
post #3

Now we know what will happen to Snowden if he is granted asylum by a country that can only be reached by flight. The flight permits will be rescinded, the plane forced to land and subjected to a search, and if Snowden is present I suspect he will be arrested and extradited to the USA on the basis that the asylum is invalid on the grounds that it was not granted in the destination country. Russia really is his best ch…

> the plane forced to land Forced how? I doubt anybody would be willing to shoot a civilian plane down to get Snowden, especially if the plane in question was also carrying a president or other high ranking people. So the pilot could relatively safely ignore any demands to land.

They still have to refuel...

Re: Bolivia says Morales' plane diverted, apparently over Snowden

#27
post #23
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't seem to be handling this very intelligently, more like a bully than anything else. It would be much easier to let Snowden get to a country in southamerica and then after some weeks press under the table to get him arrested. Now doing all this pressing all they get is Snowden in China or Russia's arms.

If you assume the goal of all this is to deter future leaks, I'd say they are doing a pretty good job. Snowden has so much uncertainty and risk in the next few weeks that I bet borderline whistle-blowers are rethinking their plan. Arresting him quietly without the media gets them Snowden, but not the deterrent.

On the other hand, if he gets out of their grasp, potential future whistleblowers will have a recipe for how to handle the situation and the knowledge that they can get away... It's a big gamble.

Re: Bolivia says Morales' plane diverted, apparently over Snowden

#28
post #6

That tells a lot about all these European countries that are just puppets of the US government,especially France where I come from... Maybe we should stop the hypocrisy and let Washington govern us directly, we could save a lot of money this way.

Not so much puppets but they certainly don't want to encourage anyone within their intelligence apparatus to follow in Snowden's footsteps.

I really wish some country would have stepped up and taken him in. While I do not fully support his actions we are far to close to the results of what a one world government would be like. No place to run, no place to hide

Re: Bolivia says Morales' plane diverted, apparently over Snowden

#29
post #22
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's funny how this story goes international. From Hong Kong/Peking to Moskow, to Austria/France, to Venezuela.

It's good that just like with the Wikileaks scandal, it exposes which countries are vassals to US.

Which is information that Bolivia and Venezuela would like to have hard confirmation of.

EDIT: it also gives a good indication of the US's reaction times to such over flights.

Re: Bolivia says Morales' plane diverted, apparently over Snowden

#30
post #23
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't seem to be handling this very intelligently, more like a bully than anything else. It would be much easier to let Snowden get to a country in southamerica and then after some weeks press under the table to get him arrested. Now doing all this pressing all they get is Snowden in China or Russia's arms.

If you assume the goal of all this is to deter future leaks, I'd say they are doing a pretty good job. Snowden has so much uncertainty and risk in the next few weeks that I bet borderline whistle-blowers are rethinking their plan. Arresting him quietly without the media gets them Snowden, but not the deterrent.

Snowden saw how Manning, Binney, Drake and others were treated, and it didn't stop him.
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