Michael Hastings Sent Panicked Email Hours Before Car Crash • Hacker News Board

Re: Michael Hastings Sent Panicked Email Hours Before Car Crash

#171

Post by logn » Wed, Jul 03, 2013, 7:09 AM UTC

sage_joch wrote: post #10

corresation wrote: post #5

Another possibility is that he had a nervous breakdown or substance abuse episode, leading to both the paranoid emails and the irrational vehicle operations. Obviously I'm not saying that's the case, but the extremely irrational driving goes fits a theory of paranoid delusions (brought on by any number of mechanisms), just as the hacked car system goes with about to uncover something big.

Yeah, we really don't know. But I'm extremely uncomfortable by the fact that foul play is a real possibility. We already know that the federal government is operating largely in secret and without regard to the law (their insistence that are indeed following their own secret set of laws doesn't provide me much solace). We already know that various press organizations have been wiretapped. I feel like I've woken up in…

> I feel like I've woken up into a country I no longer recognize.

I've seriously thought about moving to New Zealand. Beautiful country, no software patents, universal healthcare, good schools. I think maybe the era of the US being the best place to be (or at least many people thinking that) is over.

Re: Michael Hastings Sent Panicked Email Hours Before Car Crash

#172

Post by twelve40 » Wed, Jul 03, 2013, 7:41 AM UTC

scythe wrote: post #130

smoyer wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And suddenly the conspiracy theorists are wondering if Taylorious works for the NSA ;) Your points are well organized and I tend to agree (especially that there would be an easier way to get rid of him), but I don't think you'll stop those that see a conspiracy around every corner. I tend to see our government (today) as a very mismanaged large corporation. There are people over-reaching and those above them are tryi…

I am afraid Taylorious misses the point. I am afraid sage_joch misses the point in an even worse way. You may be surprised to hear this: it does not matter politically one tiny iota whether the FBI killed Michael Hastings. He's just one journalist, there are many like him. What matters is what happens after Mr. Hastings' death. If the FBI is to be trusted, they will deny involvement on the low and the high: a trustwo…

> they would stoke rumors of their ferocity by claiming responsibility for the otherwise-natural deaths of political contrarians

[citation needed]

Re: Michael Hastings Sent Panicked Email Hours Before Car Crash

#173

Post by _pmf_ » Wed, Jul 03, 2013, 7:52 AM UTC

corresation wrote: post #5

Another possibility is that he had a nervous breakdown or substance abuse episode, leading to both the paranoid emails and the irrational vehicle operations. Obviously I'm not saying that's the case, but the extremely irrational driving goes fits a theory of paranoid delusions (brought on by any number of mechanisms), just as the hacked car system goes with about to uncover something big.

> Another possibility is that he had a nervous breakdown or substance abuse episode, leading to both the paranoid emails and the irrational vehicle operations.

Ah, but that spin is highly unlikely to generate buzz among moronic internet detectives, and therefore no responsible journalist will deal with such a trite story.

Re: Michael Hastings Sent Panicked Email Hours Before Car Crash

#174

Post by lazyjones » Wed, Jul 03, 2013, 8:20 AM UTC

anthuswilliams wrote: post #157

ScottBurson wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When a car crashes isn't an engine pushed back into the cabin, not thrown forwards? It certainly can be, but considering that he hit a tree -- a narrow object, not like a wall -- I could imagine that if the impact point was not in the center of the car, the tree might not have been directly in front of the engine, and thus it could come out. Obviously he had to have been going petty fast, though.

More to the point, is the engine being thrown 100 feet somehow more consistent with an assassination plot than with a general high-speed collision? I can't see how it could be.

It could be the result of an explosion near the engine.

Re: Michael Hastings Sent Panicked Email Hours Before Car Crash

#175

Post by lazyjones » Wed, Jul 03, 2013, 8:24 AM UTC

groby_b wrote: post #80

mrschwabe wrote: post #36

This Hastings incident has interesting parallels to Andrew Breitbart's death. http://rt.com/usa/coroner-arsenic-death-breitbart-456/ Namely the fact that both of these men were prominent journalists, living in the US, each with 'big stories' they were working on that have not seen the light of day due to their untimely death shortly after proclaiming they were working on said stories. To compound the dire possibiliti…

Uh, no. Breitbart was a lot of things, but certainly not a journalist of nearly the same caliber. And given that he claimed to work on "big stories" pretty much all the time, we can take that out of the equation, too. And your disingenuous argument trying to tie drone attacks into that is an utter disservice to truth. To quote from the fine article: "could target a citizen if he was a senior operational leader of Al…

> "could target a citizen if he was a senior operational leader of Al Qaeda involved in plots against the country and if his capture was not feasible."

They have already assassinated a 16 year old US citizen who was not a senior Al Qaeda leader and who wasn't "collateral damage" either: http://boingboing.net/2011/10/21/awlakis.html

Re: Michael Hastings Sent Panicked Email Hours Before Car Crash

#176

Post by derleth » Wed, Jul 03, 2013, 8:29 AM UTC

JshWright wrote: post #128

dano416 wrote: post #110

As a mechanic, I have never seen any vechicle burn like that vechicle. I know it has a high pressure EFI system, but it has one way valves and other safety features. It looked like someone poured lighter fluid throughout the car. I imagine the Government has access to odorless flamable fluid? As the my own paranoia, I am not thrilled about even talking about this incident. I'm definetly more concerned about privacy s…

As a firefighter, I've seen many cars burn like that. That's what vehicle fires look like. Car interiors are _full_ of flammable stuff. Seat cushions, plastics, rubber... etc... The energy output of a burning car is really incredible.

As an experienced Internet denizen who has seen dozens of conspiracy theories play out, the person I'm responding to is playing a fool's game and will be shouted down and ignored by everyone who wants a neat little conspiratorial story to go with their morning breakfast. Clear, simple explanations are death to conspiracy theories, so they are ignored and the people who make them are vilified at every turn.

Re: Michael Hastings Sent Panicked Email Hours Before Car Crash

#177

Post by derleth » Wed, Jul 03, 2013, 8:31 AM UTC

jamieb wrote: post #88

eridius wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never even heard of Michael Hasting's death before today, so I don't have an opinion yet, but I find it hilarious that someone who is implying that a conspiracy is at work here is telling everyone to "apply a little grain of common sense". Conspiracy theories are not common sense.

Watergate "Scandal". From wikipedia: "On September 15, a grand jury indicted them, as well as Hunt and Liddy,[9] for conspiracy , burglary, and violation of federal wiretapping laws." I find it interesting that when the Watergate "Conspiracy Theory" was proven, two things happened: 1. The perpetrators were charged with conspiracy (proving it was a conspiracy), and yet: 2. The Watergate Conspiracy was henceforth known…

You're being dishonest. That isn't what 'conspiracy theory' means and you know it. Noun phrases aren't defined by taking their words one by one; they have to be understood as a unit.

Re: Michael Hastings Sent Panicked Email Hours Before Car Crash

#178

Post by derleth » Wed, Jul 03, 2013, 8:34 AM UTC

maaku wrote: post #170

darkchasma wrote: post #12

I used to say that people were paranoid who thought the government was spying on them. So I'm not quite ready to dismiss this as a crazy conspiracy just yet.

I thought stealthy black helicopters was the ultimate ridiculous conspiracy theory.. until they crashed one in Pakistan. I knew the NSA could listen in wherever they wanted, but I thought mass surveillance and storage of all communications was outlandish 1984-like paranoia.. until Edward Snowden. Now I don't know what to think.

The helicopter in Pakistan was hardly stealthy. Someone tweeted about it as it was flying overhead.

Re: Michael Hastings Sent Panicked Email Hours Before Car Crash

#179

Post by PavlovsCat » Wed, Jul 03, 2013, 8:51 AM UTC

corresation wrote: post #5

Another possibility is that he had a nervous breakdown or substance abuse episode, leading to both the paranoid emails and the irrational vehicle operations. Obviously I'm not saying that's the case, but the extremely irrational driving goes fits a theory of paranoid delusions (brought on by any number of mechanisms), just as the hacked car system goes with about to uncover something big.

What in the email seemed "paranoid" to you?

may be wise to immediately request legal counsel before any conversations or interviews about our news-gathering practices or related journalism issues.

"Obviously I'm not saying that's the case,"

Even saying it's likely takes sheer powers of rationalization I can't even fathom. And bringing up just that is what it is. This is like saying "no offense, but" and then saying something offensive.

Re: Michael Hastings Sent Panicked Email Hours Before Car Crash

#180

Post by PavlovsCat » Wed, Jul 03, 2013, 9:04 AM UTC

skwirl wrote: post #44

sage_joch wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, we really don't know. But I'm extremely uncomfortable by the fact that foul play is a real possibility. We already know that the federal government is operating largely in secret and without regard to the law (their insistence that are indeed following their own secret set of laws doesn't provide me much solace). We already know that various press organizations have been wiretapped. I feel like I've woken up in…

It is a huge leap from the revelations of late and a world where the government goes around killing journalists. When your parents confided to you that Santa Claus wasn't real, you didn't suddenly become adopted too. Chill out and reacquaint with reality.

It is a huge leap from the revelations of late and a world where the government goes around killing journalists.

Well, there was Putin being all concerned about Snowden hurting his American friends, so there's that :P

Seriously though, the US government killed plenty more people for minding them a lot less. So where exactly does this huge leap come into play? That it would be hard to do? Why, just look at what random comment is floating atop this discussion, completely unfounded speculation about drug abuse or nervous breakdowns, with zero argument for them given, except that it's technically possible, however unlikely.

Are you denying that it's "technically possible" that the US government "goes around killing journalists" (which is NOT what the comment you replied to said by the way, that's all yours), however unlikely? If not, why not react with the same rigour to the original comment?

This is all kinda disgusting. Yes, we don't know either way, and maybe it's pointless to speculate. But if it's okay to speculate some utter bullshit like the top comment, then it's allowed to point something out in response without that being utterly twisted into something childish, and then being patronizing about your own fucking strawman.