An Open Letter to Craig Newmark • Hacker News Board

Re: An Open Letter to Craig Newmark

#11

Post by colinsidoti » Wed, Jul 03, 2013, 6:37 AM UTC

tempestn wrote: post #7

colinsidoti wrote: post #4

You should piggyback your plugin into popular installers to get this on millions of computers. Then, don't make them push a button to post it on krrb, do it automatically. Make sure your TOS at install time says this is going to happen. (I may or may not have been involved with a company that did this to great success.)

So instead of providing a useful service, they should distribute malware designed to... what, maximize their chances of being sued by craigslist?

Does it, though?

The plugin today quite arguably scrapes Craigslist programmatically. I think Craigslist has a case there.

However, if Krrb instead injected JS at post-time to publish cross-site, I think that argument becomes much less convincing.

You can make a case on either side, but I think doing it at post time is important (for one thing, it guarantees that the publisher is actually the person krrbing it)

Re: An Open Letter to Craig Newmark

#12

Post by aneth4 » Wed, Jul 03, 2013, 6:37 AM UTC

The worst part is the hypocracy... what Buckmaster claims about himself:

"Possibly the only CEO ever described as anti-establishment, a communist, and a socialistic anarchist"

http://www.craigslist.org/about/jim_buckmaster

Re: An Open Letter to Craig Newmark

#13

Post by rdouble » Wed, Jul 03, 2013, 6:43 AM UTC

wise_young_man wrote: post #5

eBay owns a reported at least 25% of Craigslist [1]. Whenever I tell people they are genuinely surprised. Craigslist never has really added huge features in years and I honestly think it is because eBay slows them down and doesn't want them to. Think about how Twitter and Facebook have grown built APIs, 3rd party integration and apps. Craigslist doesn't even have an official iPhone app. They've had the capital, the r…

Craig didn't sell to eBay, one of his employees did and it was a minor scandal at the time.

Re: An Open Letter to Craig Newmark

#14

Post by jmspring » Wed, Jul 03, 2013, 6:44 AM UTC

jmduke wrote: post #3

It's important to note that this is, at first glance, a different beast than the padmappers/3Taps issues, which were primarily about scraping craigslist data and placing it on a different site. Krrb has users press a button, which scrapes a given post. The end result is the same -- the same data as Craigslist being displayed on a different site -- but this is coming from the Krrb users' own volitions, which I think m…

It is quite different.

That said, I expect no response from Craig. Despite his self proclaimed love of customer support, he has been very quiet on these issues.

Re: An Open Letter to Craig Newmark

#15

Post by roin » Wed, Jul 03, 2013, 6:45 AM UTC

Craigslist is the saddest example of a near natural monopoly formed in a two-sided market on the internet. Considering the pace of innovation over there, it's only a matter of time until they are disrupted. In the meantime we'll dread looking for apartments, buying/selling through classified ads, and anything else that we need to do on Craigslist.

Re: An Open Letter to Craig Newmark

#16

Post by richardjordan » Wed, Jul 03, 2013, 6:46 AM UTC

This is a pointless waste if time. The guy has made shed loads of money and his actions have clearly demonstrated he doesn't give a flying whatever about anyone's opinion of his actions and will continue to do whatever maximizes his profit. I say that without positive or negative judgment. It just is what it is. The whole - hey we know you're really a nice kid so stop bullying the other kids - schtick never worked in the play ground and it doesn't work as grown ups. I see this sort of thing all the time. We don't live in a society where shame has any meaning any more so trying to appeal to someone's good nature and the whole "hey it's not you it's your minions" crap is of no use.

Re: An Open Letter to Craig Newmark

#17

Post by res0nat0r » Wed, Jul 03, 2013, 6:47 AM UTC

jmduke wrote: post #3

It's important to note that this is, at first glance, a different beast than the padmappers/3Taps issues, which were primarily about scraping craigslist data and placing it on a different site. Krrb has users press a button, which scrapes a given post. The end result is the same -- the same data as Craigslist being displayed on a different site -- but this is coming from the Krrb users' own volitions, which I think m…

I think this is the same issue as Padmapper, just on a much smaller scale. Don't write code that will re-display/re-post content of a Craigslist post on your 3rd party website.

I bet if the button were changed to just cut/paste an html link to .craigslist.org/post all would be well.

This is just CL trying to keep their postings exclusive to their website of which they've spent many a time and money trying to build and brand.

Re: An Open Letter to Craig Newmark

#18

Post by wpietri » Wed, Jul 03, 2013, 6:47 AM UTC

wise_young_man wrote: post #5

eBay owns a reported at least 25% of Craigslist [1]. Whenever I tell people they are genuinely surprised. Craigslist never has really added huge features in years and I honestly think it is because eBay slows them down and doesn't want them to. Think about how Twitter and Facebook have grown built APIs, 3rd party integration and apps. Craigslist doesn't even have an official iPhone app. They've had the capital, the r…

I doubt Ebay has any influence on the day-to-day operations of Craigslist. They have those shares because CL gave them to an early employee who then sold Craig out. It was not an investment CL sought or wanted, and I suspect that the official answer to any Ebay request is a curt GFY.

Re: An Open Letter to Craig Newmark

#19

Post by res0nat0r » Wed, Jul 03, 2013, 6:49 AM UTC

jmspring wrote: post #14

jmduke wrote: post #3

It's important to note that this is, at first glance, a different beast than the padmappers/3Taps issues, which were primarily about scraping craigslist data and placing it on a different site. Krrb has users press a button, which scrapes a given post. The end result is the same -- the same data as Craigslist being displayed on a different site -- but this is coming from the Krrb users' own volitions, which I think m…

It is quite different. That said, I expect no response from Craig. Despite his self proclaimed love of customer support, he has been very quiet on these issues.

Smart businessmen (who want to stay in business) don't blog about litigious information, no matter how cool or web 2.0 it is to do so now days. They let their lawyers handle it.

Re: An Open Letter to Craig Newmark

#20

Post by throwaway9848 » Wed, Jul 03, 2013, 6:49 AM UTC

Craigslist has been incredibly consistent about its position. It would be shocking of Krrb didn't get a C&D. The author's mock surprise and petty insults come off really pathetic given this is clearly a planned publicity stunt.

CL is simple, unobtrusive, and doesn't make its users feel like it's try to monetize every click or pageview. That's why the dominate the market. I love it that they sue the hell out of anyone that tries to ride on their coattails. If they're doing it wrong, someone can prove it buy building a better classified ad site and clean up the market.

EDIT: since I'm getting downvoted anyway, and I have no conflict of interest (not a CL employee, relative, and very infrequent user).... pg, instead of posting stuff like this, you have unique resources at your disposal to build a CL clone that behaves in the way you wish CL would behave. How hard could it be? Or is it that building up and operating a classified listing site while allowing 3rd party sites to repost your listings is a money loser?