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Michael Hastings Sent Panicked Email Hours Before Car Crash

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Re: Michael Hastings Sent Panicked Email Hours Before Car Crash

#161

Post by marze »

scythe wrote: post #130
smoyer wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And suddenly the conspiracy theorists are wondering if Taylorious works for the NSA ;) Your points are well organized and I tend to agree (especially that there would be an easier way to get rid of him), but I don't think you'll stop those that see a conspiracy around every corner. I tend to see our government (today) as a very mismanaged large corporation. There are people over-reaching and those above them are tryi…

I am afraid Taylorious misses the point. I am afraid sage_joch misses the point in an even worse way. You may be surprised to hear this: it does not matter politically one tiny iota whether the FBI killed Michael Hastings. He's just one journalist, there are many like him. What matters is what happens after Mr. Hastings' death. If the FBI is to be trusted, they will deny involvement on the low and the high: a trustwo…

>He's just one journalist, there are many like him.

Uh, name a few?

Re: Michael Hastings Sent Panicked Email Hours Before Car Crash

#162

Post by fnordfnordfnord »

mikeash wrote: post #97
byeworld wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting parallel (I know the events are not equivalent, but still): Here's a report of a Mercedes crashed at Nurburgring by a test driver: http://www.automotto.com/2014-mercedes-benz-sls-amg-black-se... Both the test driver and the passenger walked away unharmed. Do note that this was on the track, where the cars are supposedly driven at much higher speeds than on regular roads.

People are making a typical statistical error here. It is unlikely for a car to catch fire in an accident, certainly. But it's wrong to take that and conclude that this fire was therefore likely due to foul play. Foul play is still a much less likely explanation for the facts as currently known.

When would statistics support a suspicion of foul play? The scarcity of some occurrence isn't proof against it.

Re: Michael Hastings Sent Panicked Email Hours Before Car Crash

#163

Post by mzs »

dano416 wrote: post #110

As a mechanic, I have never seen any vechicle burn like that vechicle. I know it has a high pressure EFI system, but it has one way valves and other safety features. It looked like someone poured lighter fluid throughout the car. I imagine the Government has access to odorless flamable fluid? As the my own paranoia, I am not thrilled about even talking about this incident. I'm definetly more concerned about privacy s…

The FF is right, I've seen a Jetta and what I can only nail down as far as a GM B-body that looked like that after car fires. The ones instead which you see at the pick-n-pull after fires were only localized fires like the electrical fire from the radio that melted my center console. I've seen some odd ones at the yards that had fires near the gas filler and what must have been an electrical fire in a taillight. Most with fire damage had greasy engine bay fires though near the battery or under a carb. Those cars still contain many valuable parts, and that's why you see ones like that only.

Re: Michael Hastings Sent Panicked Email Hours Before Car Crash

#164

Post by fnordfnordfnord »

fredoliveira wrote: post #114
jlgreco wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes you think his case sets a lower bound on the speed required to start a fire?

Well, physics.

Physicists tend to like to repeat an experiment lots of times before attempting to make conclusions based on empirical observations.

Re: Michael Hastings Sent Panicked Email Hours Before Car Crash

#165

Post by sitkack »

TechNewb wrote: post #76
LoganCale wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The subject of his email was "FBI Investigation, re: NSA". Don't know if the investigation is the same as his big story, however.

Wonder if his notes could be found, I imagine they would have been cloud backed.

Ask the NSA for a copy?

Re: Michael Hastings Sent Panicked Email Hours Before Car Crash

#166

Post by mikegagnon »

ynniv wrote: post #111
incision wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"Anybody read through http://www.autosec.org/pubs/cars-usenixsec2011.pdf already?" To what end? At a glance: * These attacks were demonstrated on a "moderately priced late model sedan" which is surely a bit of a different situation than a brand new luxury car. That could mean more sophisticated systems and likely less time to reverse engineer - assuming you don't believe the manufacturer is complicit. * On page 5 an…

That could mean more sophisticated systems and likely less time to reverse engineer Car electronics change very little year to year. If you have an unreported exploit, it wouldn't surprise me if it were valid for more than 5 production years. The bigger issue is that the networks in these cars are only secured by physical access, and there are more devices on the bus every year. A remote exploit must fetch a pretty p…

The low-level details of exploits always sound like they require a miracle to pull off.

Re: Michael Hastings Sent Panicked Email Hours Before Car Crash

#167

Post by gruseom »

tptacek wrote: post #156
gruseom wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Conspiracy theories are not common sense That's a tautology. The phrase "conspiracy theory" intends something only a fool or a fanatic would believe—that's why it's always accompanied by ridiculing language. Cases shown to be real are not called "conspiracy theories" but "history".

Do you believe this car wreck was suspicious? You're right that the term "conspiracy theory" is dismissive. Is it wrong to be dismissive of the theory that Hastings was killed using his car?

I doubt it. And I get why you might find the thread annoying. But I believe people mostly use the term "conspiracy theory" to reinforce the assumptions of their own worldview. The comment to which I replied seems like a good example of that, since it didn't react to anything specific about this case (disavowed any knowledge of it, in fact), only the form that it took.

One piece of evidence for this security-blanket interpretation of "conspiracy theory" is that we're much more likely to invoke the term about things that happen close to home, and much less likely to resort to it about things that happen abroad. Also, the ridiculing language that invariably accompanies the term is a social ritual. It has no content; its function is to enforce consensus belief. The human need for consensus belief is profound and we're largely unconscious of its influence on us, which makes it that much stronger.

I think this phenomenon is fascinating and I wish it were possible to study it at a more-than-anecdotal level, but I don't know of anything like that.

p.s. I think it's cool that this thread contains comments from not just an actual firefighter, but (if I'm reading correctly) a firefighter-programmer. As my sister-in-law likes to say: you barely ever get that!

Re: Michael Hastings Sent Panicked Email Hours Before Car Crash

#169

Post by samstave »

tzs wrote: post #126
samstave wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you guys see the 16 page PDF detailing remote auto take-over? Some are speculating that his car was remotely controlled via this method or tampered with such that his breaks failed. If you haven't seen that PDF, ill to find the link.

Assassination by remote controlling the target's car is a Wile E. Coyote level plan. It's hard to imagine any remotely competent government group or organized crime group choosing it. Given the nature of his work, there are much easier methods that would be less work to carry out, have much lower risk of failure, and have much lower risk of leaving behind evidence that might raise suspicion or lead back to those resp…

http://www.autosec.org/pubs/cars-usenixsec2011.pdf

Check this out and look at the source as well as take some time to critically think about the technical resources a group like the NSA has vs. the researchers of this paper...

You think that "It's hard to imagine any remotely competent government group or organized crime group" choosing it" is an informed position?

I would HOPE you are aware of Stucnet, as well as Duqu...

Do you recall this: http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2012/01/20121116284...

This was supposedly the work of the USG/Mossad in Iran. If you think that they would use lowly tactics like a magnetic car bomb -- but would be "too competent" to employ remote hijacking of a late model car, then I simply cannot agree with you on this matter.

Re: Michael Hastings Sent Panicked Email Hours Before Car Crash

#170

Post by maaku »

darkchasma wrote: post #12

I used to say that people were paranoid who thought the government was spying on them. So I'm not quite ready to dismiss this as a crazy conspiracy just yet.

I thought stealthy black helicopters was the ultimate ridiculous conspiracy theory.. until they crashed one in Pakistan.

I knew the NSA could listen in wherever they wanted, but I thought mass surveillance and storage of all communications was outlandish 1984-like paranoia.. until Edward Snowden.

Now I don't know what to think.

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