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Michael Hastings Sent Panicked Email Hours Before Car Crash

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Re: Michael Hastings Sent Panicked Email Hours Before Car Crash

#141
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The latest Fast and Furious movie employes magnetically attached exploit devices that lock the ABS system on a single wheel at speed, causing the car to immediately pull hard in that direction. Are you seriously citing an action movie to support a point about how easy this would be?

No, I'm pointing out that even Hollywood thought of this. When Hollywood is using a technology, you can usually assume it's either fantasy or old hat. This doesn't look like fantasy.

It also doesn't look like old hat... Wouldn't that make it fantasy?

Re: Michael Hastings Sent Panicked Email Hours Before Car Crash

#142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's quite remarkable how thoroughly you have tried to refute my simple statement of a possible alternate scenario, while simultaneously propping up the alternative (and just as baseless ) theory, loading your post with a delightful collection of emotive words. We're all mostly adults here. We can rationally discuss that there are many possible scenarios. This is not and will hopefully never be a site where people wh…

You're talking in circles, and in your first paragraph literally just repeated back to me what I'd written about your post. In any case, we have already had many people attack theories of government involvement based on a lack of evidence. Yet, many posit theories with less evidence (such as yours). So, I merely asked why such theories should be any more credible. That is why it doesn't work for you to merely repeat…

To be more to the point, your post is noisy nonsense that attacks the mere existence of alternative theories, and those who might posit them. I was trying to politely say that your breed of Reddit-style "shoot-the-messenger" post is not usually well received here, thankfully.

Re: Michael Hastings Sent Panicked Email Hours Before Car Crash

#143
post #13

Any idea what the big story was?

Maybe it was related to TrapWire, a cloud service that has facial, emotional, and behavioral recognition. It would tie in well with the upstream fibertap, and PRISM programs.

Doubtful, trapwire is entirely public if you do research on it. Also, emotion and behavioral recognition is pretty far fetched.

Re: Michael Hastings Sent Panicked Email Hours Before Car Crash

#144
post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"Anybody read through http://www.autosec.org/pubs/cars-usenixsec2011.pdf already?" To what end? At a glance: * These attacks were demonstrated on a "moderately priced late model sedan" which is surely a bit of a different situation than a brand new luxury car. That could mean more sophisticated systems and likely less time to reverse engineer - assuming you don't believe the manufacturer is complicit. * On page 5 an…

That could mean more sophisticated systems and likely less time to reverse engineer Car electronics change very little year to year. If you have an unreported exploit, it wouldn't surprise me if it were valid for more than 5 production years. The bigger issue is that the networks in these cars are only secured by physical access, and there are more devices on the bus every year. A remote exploit must fetch a pretty p…

">Car electronics change very little year to year. If you have an unreported exploit, it wouldn't surprise me if it were valid for more than 5 production years."

Anecdotally, most ECUs I've seen change up 1-3 years. I have no idea if later units might be code compatible with prior, but I'd doubt it.

>I think you read this wrong - the car was disassembled to explore the systems, but after vulnerability development, physical access to a target was not required.

Obviously, I'm not certain, but looking at the previous work they reference [0 .p12-13] seems to say that the bridging exploits [1 .p5] are dependent on re-flashing. Perhaps the 2011 Bluetooth overflow is injecting 2010 re-flash equivalent code?

0: http://www.autosec.org/pubs/cars-oakland2010.pdf

"We were able to successfully reprogram our car’s telematics unit from a device connected to the car’s low-speed bus (in our experiments, a laptop running CARSHARK). Once reprogrammed, our telematics unit acts as a bridge, relaying packets from the lowspeed bus onto the high-speed bus."

1: http://www.autosec.org/pubs/cars-usenixsec2011.pdf

"Note, such interbus bridging is critical to many of the attacks we explore since it exposes the attack surface of one set of components to components on a separate bus; we explain briefly here."

Re: Michael Hastings Sent Panicked Email Hours Before Car Crash

#145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've heard about bugs in the throttle position channel from a few coworkers that worked for several different manufacturers. This was awhile ago though and most bugs have been sorted. Creating a car crash through brake or steering manipulation sounds a bit far fetched. Throttle position on the other hand does not have any type of redundancy in most modern cars (no mechanical means of restoring control). If you have a…

You can put the car in neutral or turn off the ignition.

If you do that, your steering wheel will lock, perhaps sending you into a tree or something.

Re: Michael Hastings Sent Panicked Email Hours Before Car Crash

#146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or, an even less interesting possibility: Hastings might in fact have been under some kind of investigation; he might have not slept well the prior night; and he might have fallen asleep at the wheel. This is consistent with the facts of the case: the crash happened in the middle of the night, just after Hastings sped through a red light.

I'm not trying to suggest foul play by refuting this, but nobody falls asleep at the wheel when driving that fast, no matter how poorly you slept previously. The adrenaline won't let you.

Maybe no one falls asleep while driving that fast, but Google suggests that people can drive pretty fast once they fall asleep:

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2012/01/03/sources-lt-gov-murray-... http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2... http://sandra.visionsmartnews.com/randolph-county-nc-school-...

Re: Michael Hastings Sent Panicked Email Hours Before Car Crash

#147

Another possibility is that he had a nervous breakdown or substance abuse episode, leading to both the paranoid emails and the irrational vehicle operations. Obviously I'm not saying that's the case, but the extremely irrational driving goes fits a theory of paranoid delusions (brought on by any number of mechanisms), just as the hacked car system goes with about to uncover something big.

Unless there is evidence that he has a history with drug abuse, it seems significantly more likely the government was involved in this.

Re: Michael Hastings Sent Panicked Email Hours Before Car Crash

#148
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can you possibly assert that the car "crashed by itself" and not because the driver did any number of things to yank the steering wheel and throw the car out of control?

I own a 2006 525i BMW Sedan and I was recently in a situation about 2 months ago where a car pulled out of a side-street as I was passing on a main road, I had no choice but to yank my steering wheel and hard-brake (fortunately no other cars where behind me at the time). The car is 7 years old, but has steering assist which works with the brake assist technology the car has in which the computer takes over both the s…

Those gizmos trade having the car slide instead of spin or flip, they don't break the laws of physics, so be safe out there you don't want to under steer into the oncoming lane someday. Regarding this accident, it's happened that people black-out/pass-out/fall-asleep/have-a-heart-attack/and-so-forth and the weight of their foot on the accelerator - well guess what - accelerates the car.

Re: Michael Hastings Sent Panicked Email Hours Before Car Crash

#149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've heard about bugs in the throttle position channel from a few coworkers that worked for several different manufacturers. This was awhile ago though and most bugs have been sorted. Creating a car crash through brake or steering manipulation sounds a bit far fetched. Throttle position on the other hand does not have any type of redundancy in most modern cars (no mechanical means of restoring control). If you have a…

You can put the car in neutral or turn off the ignition.

Yup, that is what I meant about drivers having an option. In a panic most will freeze up without training. Sad but true.

Re: Michael Hastings Sent Panicked Email Hours Before Car Crash

#150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can put the car in neutral or turn off the ignition.

If you do that, your steering wheel will lock, perhaps sending you into a tree or something.

Throwing your Mercedes transmission into neutral should not lock your steering wheel...hopefully.
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