Michael Hastings Sent Panicked Email Hours Before Car Crash • Hacker News Board

Re: Michael Hastings Sent Panicked Email Hours Before Car Crash

#121

Post by DigitalSea » Wed, Jul 03, 2013, 2:34 AM UTC

dchuk wrote: post #67

DigitalSea wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not impossible to crash any car, the alternate reality here is that a brand new car with more safety features than a padded cell crashed by itself at 4:30am in the morning into a tree and exploded on impact. The point is these cars are built to try and avoid these kind of accidents at all cost, the plethora of safety features cars like these have makes it a lot more difficult than say an early 00's vehicle crash…

How can you possibly assert that the car "crashed by itself" and not because the driver did any number of things to yank the steering wheel and throw the car out of control?

I own a 2006 525i BMW Sedan and I was recently in a situation about 2 months ago where a car pulled out of a side-street as I was passing on a main road, I had no choice but to yank my steering wheel and hard-brake (fortunately no other cars where behind me at the time). The car is 7 years old, but has steering assist which works with the brake assist technology the car has in which the computer takes over both the steering and braking to prevent a spin out and it worked well. The computer actually corrected the steering for me the best it could and stopped the vehicle. I could have easily gone into a power or light pole, but the car prevented it. I was doing 80km/hr which is essentially 50mph. Hastings was going 16km/hr at 60mph faster than what I was so it's not the same, but if a 7 year old BMW can do that, then I'd imagine a 2013 Mercedes would be better (that's just an assumption however).

I am not fuelling conspiracies, I am just trying to say that we should always dig deeper into an unexplained situation like this. Especially one surrounded by controversy. I would actually be interested in hearing what Mercedes has to say about the accident and perhaps even seeing Mercedes trying to replicate the crash using the same car and known data. Because controversy aside, this doesn't bode well for Mercedes' image especially considering Princess Diana suffered a similar fate in a Mercedes at similar speeds, only her Mercedes didn't explode that I am aware of. This is a potential PR disaster for Mercedes, regardless of speeds or safety features of the car perception is what sells car and if a modern Mercedes is perceived as being a moving exploding bomb which isn't a good image for any company to have regardless of what the real facts are.

Re: Michael Hastings Sent Panicked Email Hours Before Car Crash

#122

Post by jaredstenquist » Wed, Jul 03, 2013, 2:34 AM UTC

DigitalSea wrote: post #18

How does a 2013 model Mercedes Benz with a five star ANCAP safety rating (the highest rating you can get) scoring 35.51 points scored out of 37 (an Australian car safety rating for reference) with more airbags than wheels (8 airbags for those of you playing at home including a curtain airbag that drops in-front of the passenger and driver protecting the head and upper-body from impacting anything) crash into a tree w…

(former firefighter) I would look to local and state police for their reports. Any fatal accident with a possibility of foul play, or obvious foul play (DUI, etc) resulted in us assisting the State Police reconstruction team while they processed the scene, measuring and photographing everything to the millimeter, because once we cleaned it up, there was no going back.

That said, I've also seen plenty of crazy vehicle accidents, including fires, many of which are hard to explain how they could have happened. For example, a car where the entire drivers side was smashed into the back seat from driving into a telephone pole. The driver's survival story? "Thank god i wasn't wearing a seatbelt and my car had a bench seat"... She moved over at the last second.

Seatbelts don't always save lives...

Re: Michael Hastings Sent Panicked Email Hours Before Car Crash

#123

Post by JshWright » Wed, Jul 03, 2013, 2:34 AM UTC

DigitalSea wrote: post #46

snowwrestler wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is how conspiracy theories are promulgated: propose an preposterous alternate reality and then find real facts wanting in comparison. In this case the alternate reality is that it is "impossible" to crash recent model year Mercedes unless you intend to. This is obviously preposterous since it's not hard to find reports of such crashes with 5 minutes on Google.

It's not impossible to crash any car, the alternate reality here is that a brand new car with more safety features than a padded cell crashed by itself at 4:30am in the morning into a tree and exploded on impact. The point is these cars are built to try and avoid these kind of accidents at all cost, the plethora of safety features cars like these have makes it a lot more difficult than say an early 00's vehicle crash…

I've yet to see any witness accounts that are consistent with an explosion (and trust me, I've spent a fair amount of time looking). The post crash video looks like an 'ordinary' post crash vehicle fire to me. I don't see any signs of an explosion.

What happens to the engine depends very much on how the impact occurred, and the energies involved. I've seen a handful of wrecks where some substantial piece of the vehicle (engine, transmission, etc) was tossed a long distance. Incidentally, all of those were very high speed collisions, and they all involved at least one fatality. There were all slightly off-axis impacts trees or very solid posts, where the point of impact was about halfway between the midline of the vehicle and one of the front corners.

Re: Michael Hastings Sent Panicked Email Hours Before Car Crash

#124

Post by alexvr » Wed, Jul 03, 2013, 2:34 AM UTC

snowwrestler wrote: post #30

kiba wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think given the fact that the US is literally Nazi Germany Literally is metaphorically literally? I hate it when people abuse language like that, even though usage dictates conventions.

Pretty sure the parent was being sarcastic.

And/or trolling

Re: Michael Hastings Sent Panicked Email Hours Before Car Crash

#125

Post by unclebucknasty » Wed, Jul 03, 2013, 2:37 AM UTC

corresation wrote: post #108

unclebucknasty wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see why your baseless conjecture about nervous breakdowns and substance abuse should be any more credible than the cause implied by this post. I have seen a lot of people coming up with such alternative explanations, which actually go a long way to avoid a more plausible (if less comfortable) conclusion. Also, I have seen multiple references to some paranoia that Mr. Hastings supposedly had. When I read his e…

It's quite remarkable how thoroughly you have tried to refute my simple statement of a possible alternate scenario, while simultaneously propping up the alternative (and just as baseless ) theory, loading your post with a delightful collection of emotive words. We're all mostly adults here. We can rationally discuss that there are many possible scenarios. This is not and will hopefully never be a site where people wh…

You're talking in circles, and in your first paragraph literally just repeated back to me what I'd written about your post. In any case, we have already had many people attack theories of government involvement based on a lack of evidence. Yet, many posit theories with less evidence (such as yours). So, I merely asked why such theories should be any more credible. That is why it doesn't work for you to merely repeat my words back to me.

In your second paragraph you opine about us all being adults, capable of rational discussion, yet you made no substantive contribution to that discussion. You just kind of made the observation that this is a great place to do it. If one were so inclined. I guess. Then, you go on to lament about some imaginary future date wherein people use the site to create their own realities or something.

What is all this meta-talk? If you want the site to be about discussion of various ideas, then discuss yours! Make your counter-point and defend your position vs. whining about someone disagreeing with you. Do you really not see the irony in passing on opportunities to make your point, and instead using them to express your worry that someday you won't be able to make your point?

Good grief. As it is, your entire post was a NOOP.

Re: Michael Hastings Sent Panicked Email Hours Before Car Crash

#126

Post by tzs » Wed, Jul 03, 2013, 2:37 AM UTC

samstave wrote: post #71

sage_joch wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, we really don't know. But I'm extremely uncomfortable by the fact that foul play is a real possibility. We already know that the federal government is operating largely in secret and without regard to the law (their insistence that are indeed following their own secret set of laws doesn't provide me much solace). We already know that various press organizations have been wiretapped. I feel like I've woken up in…

Did you guys see the 16 page PDF detailing remote auto take-over? Some are speculating that his car was remotely controlled via this method or tampered with such that his breaks failed. If you haven't seen that PDF, ill to find the link.

Assassination by remote controlling the target's car is a Wile E. Coyote level plan. It's hard to imagine any remotely competent government group or organized crime group choosing it. Given the nature of his work, there are much easier methods that would be less work to carry out, have much lower risk of failure, and have much lower risk of leaving behind evidence that might raise suspicion or lead back to those responsible.

Re: Michael Hastings Sent Panicked Email Hours Before Car Crash

#127

Post by smky80 » Wed, Jul 03, 2013, 2:38 AM UTC

smoyer wrote: post #107

Taylorious wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Foul play is almost always a possibility if you over analyze things and don't have a lot evidence. If someone randomly kills them self by jumping off a bridge and no one sees it happen, there is no suicide note, or any other signs, then there could have been foul play because there is no evidence to prove or disprove it. For all anyone knows the person was pushed off the bridge by a passer by. The whole NSA story is…

And suddenly the conspiracy theorists are wondering if Taylorious works for the NSA ;) Your points are well organized and I tend to agree (especially that there would be an easier way to get rid of him), but I don't think you'll stop those that see a conspiracy around every corner. I tend to see our government (today) as a very mismanaged large corporation. There are people over-reaching and those above them are tryi…

> I tend to see our government (today) as a very mismanaged large corporation.

I don't know, I think the US government seems pretty ruthlessly efficient at toppling Middle Eastern governments, transferring wealth from taxpayers to big banks and large corporations, increasingly centralizing power into the federal government and large corporations, and breaking down families and increasing reliance on the state. And spying on it's own citizens.

I suppose, if you automatically dismissed any such thoughts to the contrary as "ridiculous conspiracy theories", it could look like it is all a problem of mismanagement. Maybe.

Re: Michael Hastings Sent Panicked Email Hours Before Car Crash

#128

Post by JshWright » Wed, Jul 03, 2013, 2:39 AM UTC

dano416 wrote: post #110

As a mechanic, I have never seen any vechicle burn like that vechicle. I know it has a high pressure EFI system, but it has one way valves and other safety features. It looked like someone poured lighter fluid throughout the car. I imagine the Government has access to odorless flamable fluid? As the my own paranoia, I am not thrilled about even talking about this incident. I'm definetly more concerned about privacy s…

As a firefighter, I've seen many cars burn like that. That's what vehicle fires look like. Car interiors are _full_ of flammable stuff. Seat cushions, plastics, rubber... etc... The energy output of a burning car is really incredible.

Re: Michael Hastings Sent Panicked Email Hours Before Car Crash

#129

Post by tzakrajs » Wed, Jul 03, 2013, 2:40 AM UTC

cjambassador392 wrote: post #15

corresation wrote: post #5

Another possibility is that he had a nervous breakdown or substance abuse episode, leading to both the paranoid emails and the irrational vehicle operations. Obviously I'm not saying that's the case, but the extremely irrational driving goes fits a theory of paranoid delusions (brought on by any number of mechanisms), just as the hacked car system goes with about to uncover something big.

I think given the fact that the US is literally Nazi Germany, it's pretty much assured that the US assassinated him for what he knew. I'm so glad that these kind of pieces are being upvoted here so we can finally stop talking about all that technology bullshit. Upvote on the left if you agree.

Don't worry, I understand.

Re: Michael Hastings Sent Panicked Email Hours Before Car Crash

#130

Post by scythe » Wed, Jul 03, 2013, 2:40 AM UTC

smoyer wrote: post #107

Taylorious wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Foul play is almost always a possibility if you over analyze things and don't have a lot evidence. If someone randomly kills them self by jumping off a bridge and no one sees it happen, there is no suicide note, or any other signs, then there could have been foul play because there is no evidence to prove or disprove it. For all anyone knows the person was pushed off the bridge by a passer by. The whole NSA story is…

And suddenly the conspiracy theorists are wondering if Taylorious works for the NSA ;) Your points are well organized and I tend to agree (especially that there would be an easier way to get rid of him), but I don't think you'll stop those that see a conspiracy around every corner. I tend to see our government (today) as a very mismanaged large corporation. There are people over-reaching and those above them are tryi…

I am afraid Taylorious misses the point. I am afraid sage_joch misses the point in an even worse way. You may be surprised to hear this: it does not matter politically one tiny iota whether the FBI killed Michael Hastings. He's just one journalist, there are many like him.

What matters is what happens after Mr. Hastings' death. If the FBI is to be trusted, they will deny involvement on the low and the high: a trustworthy organization does not want to create even the slightest perception that they would kill a journalist. A trustworthy organization does not wish to instill fear in Hastings' colleagues. If, however, the FBI is not to be trusted, they will spread rumors that they are responsible: even if they did not kill him, it benefits them that journalists would be nervous to investigate them. This was the tactic of the KGB in the Soviet Union: they would stoke rumors of their ferocity by claiming responsibility for the otherwise-natural deaths of political contrarians.

What is truly to be feared is not that the FBI killed Michael Hastings, but that the FBI would like people to believe they killed Michael Hastings. Therefore, a rational yet paranoid individual might suspect sage_joch of being an NSA provocateur, but not Taylorious. That is the sort of corruption that will send a country into the dark ages for a century.