Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Python Tools for Visual Studio

hanselman.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–110 of 134 posts

Re: Python Tools for Visual Studio

#101

Post by ufmace »

jf22 wrote: post #77
devcpp wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...which would be detrimental to Microsoft. Limiting our options to theirs is precisely their goal by giving us a great IDE that only works on Windows. They're never gonna go it. They stand to win nothing from that.

Yeah, just like Office for Mac, they'd never do that. /sarcasm

Making Office on the Mac earns them money through direct sales and helps maintain the monopoly of Office and its file formats at the cost of slightly less incentive to choose Windows over Mac.

Making VS on Mac would earn them no money directly and would only encourage the creation of more Mac apps. At best, it might increase the takeup of .NET/Mono on Mac, which might mean more .NET apps, but no money since .NET runtime is free. I'm not seeing the incentive.

Re: Python Tools for Visual Studio

#102

Post by int_19h »

ritonlajoie wrote: post #95
DinoV wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

VS 2012 added a new debugging framework for supporting debugging multiple code types at the same time. That model requires that the debugger work out of process - inspecting various data structures cross process and reporting them back to VS. That's different from how Python debuggers are usually built w/ sys.settrace and a debugger helper thread running in the process. To accomplish that we require that we have symb…

My understanding is that dual debugging works when your main process is oythin and you can the debug some C python module. Is ther a way to debug a C process loading python27.dll which then runs some pythin code using the oython-C api?

Mixed-mode debugging works in both of these scenarios (remember that python.exe is really just a "C process loading python27.dll"). You don't need a Python project at all, you can just attach to a running process (whether it is python.exe or your own host) and start debugging. You can even do that if the host process hasn't actually loaded python##.dll yet, though of course Python breakpoints etc will only light up once that happens.

Here's a screenshot of a debug session with a custom host process written in C# running Python code that in turn uses a C++ extension module: http://i.imgur.com/IDPsWUu.png

Re: Python Tools for Visual Studio

#103

Post by int_19h »

stinos wrote: post #22
CurtHagenlocher wrote: post #9

This doesn't even mention the most awesome feature of PTVS 2.0: mixed-mode debugging, which provides an integrated experience for debugging mixed Python/C processes. See https://pytools.codeplex.com/wikipage?title=Mixed-mode%20deb... for details. Disclaimer: I used to work on IronPython.

Afaik that's exactly what the first all-in-your-face picture is showing? And man that is seriously awesome indeed.

That was not in-your-face. THAT is in-your-face ~ http://i.imgur.com/IDPsWUu.png

Re: Python Tools for Visual Studio

#104

Post by shimms »

clone1018 wrote: post #6
pipboy3 wrote: post #3

is there ruby equivalent?

As for an IDE, RubyMine.

Which is made by the same developers as ReSharper, a popular add-on for Visual Studio.

Using RubyMine now as a Rails dev, after years of Visual Studio use as a ASP.NET dev, and having the familiar ReSharper-like tools and interface in RubyMine is awesome.

RubyMine is an incredibly powerful IDE (like most of the JetBrains IDEs), with lots of Ruby specific goodness.

Re: Python Tools for Visual Studio

#105

Post by ww520 »

drmohundro wrote: post #80
ww520 wrote: post #38

Another Microsoft's best kept secrets is using Javascript for shell script. It has been there forever since Javascript first came out. It's called JScript but it's just Javascript with Windows support like running ActiveX Objects, which let you access the file system, OS, network, etc. You can pretty much drive the Windows system with it through ActiveX Automation. Also you can do Office application integration like…

Related, but for the same reasons, you could also write classic ASP using JavaScript (as opposed to VBScript). Years ago, I spent months trying to convince my team to let me use JavaScript instead of VBScript in our ASP files.

I know. When I need to do some Windows scripting, I'd do it in JScript rather than VBScript. Like when a user wants to merge two Excel files, nothing beats to whip out a simple JScript to do it. Running it is simple. They just double click on the JScript file and done. Business users love it.

Re: Python Tools for Visual Studio

#106

Post by NicoJuicy »

wwweston wrote: post #88
NicoJuicy wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm developping on some platforms. But i have to admit, nothing beats visual studio in awesomeness / completeness

I came into a shop that does a lot of .NET development over a year ago, and I swear I came into the experience hoping to learn what made lots of people say exactly what you've said. 6 months into it, I all but stopped caring, and overall, I felt like it actually created problems for me. But I'd like to understand what problems others feel it solved for them.

There's a difference between a platform (.net) and a programming language.

With visual studio, you develop for websites (MVC), apps (XAML based - WP, WPF, Silverlight, ...) and that makes it great.

I recently got back to android because of Android Builder and i'm still struggling with it (1 day or so). The visual studio experience is way smoother.

I have to admit, my little node.js experience with github and heroku felt awesome.. But it lacks a good IDE-experience and that is where Visual Studio really excels.

But command line tools can be integrated as wel in VS ;-), Azure is awesome to if you experimented with it.

With .Net you can integrate almost any language and Python is one of them. I recently talked to someone who does his PHP work solely on Azure because of the platform.

I guess you have to get in the .Net platform fully (Linq / Entity Framework / DDD (Repository / Unity Of Work / ...) to really comprehend what i'm saying.

Perhaps for some, i added a new threat on https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5981257 for more information on "Enterprisy" (can't name it better) apps on .Net.

Re: Python Tools for Visual Studio

#107

Post by sultezdukes »

pnathan wrote: post #99
wwweston wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I came into a shop that does a lot of .NET development over a year ago, and I swear I came into the experience hoping to learn what made lots of people say exactly what you've said. 6 months into it, I all but stopped caring, and overall, I felt like it actually created problems for me. But I'd like to understand what problems others feel it solved for them.

Honestly, coming into visual studio/c# from emacs/common lisp feels like going backwards in time for me. Running my CL environment on Gentoo feels like the future; a not-quite-there-yet-but-still-awesome future; running VS on Windows feels like kiddie toys that haven't gotten around to growing up yet. And that's a weird feeling when you realize the dollars, time, and research poured into each environment. :-)

That's funny because I feel the same way if I have to use Emacs. It feels like going back to the early 90s with some DOS Borland IDE.

Regular text editors just feel so clunky next to the cohesiveness of VS/Resharper or Intellij.

At some point in time, Emacs is going to have get overhauled to join the 90s, much less the 21st century.

And I understand that CL is a special case with Emacs, but it's still clunky as hell compared to what could have been really awesome environments (think Smalltalk environments), but with lots of resources pumped into the development.

Re: Python Tools for Visual Studio

#108

Post by voltagex_ »

int_19h wrote: post #96
redblacktree wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have a specific example at the moment, except that it's often unresponsive during builds. (I guess this should be expected? Other work I do is in interpreted languages, so there is no "build" step) Thanks for the link. I'm happy to add it.

Which version of VS, and what language? If you're using VS 2010 or earlier, then both C# and VB were running the build (MSBuild and compilers both) on UI thread, so responsiveness was as bad as you'd expect it to be with such architecture. From VS 2012 onwards, VB builds on a background thread, and C# builds out-of-process (which also makes it scale on multi-core systems).

I definitely notice the performance improvements in VS2012. I wonder how many people reporting performance issues are also running ReSharper. JetBrains do great work, but ReSharper (very resource-heavy.

Re: Python Tools for Visual Studio

#109

Post by jussij »

winter_blue wrote: post #35
tonyplee wrote: post #33

Just Vi or Vim for me. Used VS, VB, Eclips years back, but now back to Vi/Vim for embedded and server environment. Have not missed any of IDE features at all.

What languages do you work with? Simple things like being able to jump to the definition of a function with a press of a button (esp. when working with a large unfamiliar code base) are indispensable for me.

Any editor with ctags support should be able to provide this type of code navigation.

As an example, the Zeus IDE automatically generates ctags information for all files in the current workspace and it has this feature.

The ctags approach offers and additional bonus in that you can also do a wildcard search.

NOTE: I'm the author of the Zeus IDE.

Re: Python Tools for Visual Studio

#110

Post by WayneDB »

pnathan wrote: post #99
wwweston wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I came into a shop that does a lot of .NET development over a year ago, and I swear I came into the experience hoping to learn what made lots of people say exactly what you've said. 6 months into it, I all but stopped caring, and overall, I felt like it actually created problems for me. But I'd like to understand what problems others feel it solved for them.

Honestly, coming into visual studio/c# from emacs/common lisp feels like going backwards in time for me. Running my CL environment on Gentoo feels like the future; a not-quite-there-yet-but-still-awesome future; running VS on Windows feels like kiddie toys that haven't gotten around to growing up yet. And that's a weird feeling when you realize the dollars, time, and research poured into each environment. :-)

Are you a command-line only/mostly person? For instance, if you're going to delete a file - you always do it in a terminal, never a file browser?
Post reply on HN